help with cam selection
help with cam selection
I am going to build a drag car, I have big plans for it later but for right now I'm going to run the 305 with a TH350 behind it. I will probably be porting the heads myself and will run open headers. I need a recommendation of what cam to get and what stall torque converter I should use, I will be running a BW 9 bolt with 3.27 gears and will lighten the car of every ounce I can live without. as I said it is a drag only car.
I appreciate any help or advice you can give me. thanks
I appreciate any help or advice you can give me. thanks
Supreme Member
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
he does have a point. Id keep the camaro as is and get something like an old nova or something along those lines to work with. That way you dont hack up a perfictly good car to make a mediocre drag car, not to mention youll be able to fit a modded BBC into an older car more easily.
WELL, I appreciate your sense of humor. but unfortunatly it's wasted on me. I bought this car as a running shell and intended to part it out but the racing bug got me, I know the 305 is a joke but bracket racing isn't all about speed but consistency,right !!, as I said I have bigger plans for it LATER but I have to start somewhere and this is it !!! some of us are not rich nor do we live with MOMMY and have no obligations so we can't affford the best of the best, but unlike so many on here I won't give up when MOMMY and DADDY won't buy it for me, I will keep plugging along and eventually have something I can enjoy without feeling like I owe it to anybody.
NOW that I'm off my soapbox, does anyone have any constructive advice they would like to impart ???
NOW that I'm off my soapbox, does anyone have any constructive advice they would like to impart ???
Supreme Member
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,962
Likes: 5
From: Moorestown, NJ
Car: 88 Camaro SC
Engine: SFI'd 350
Transmission: TKO 500
Axle/Gears: 9-bolt w/ 3.23's
heh... join the crowd.. my car is a POS as well. all i could afford. I hear alot of people have reasonable success with the XE268 cam. Youll probably want to have a 2800 rpm stall as well with it.
Kidding asside..... You said "drag car". A drag car means a fast 1/4 mile car. A brand new Kia can be an excellent bracket car if that's what you're after. If speed is what you're after a 305 will SEVERELY limit your choices when it comes to heads and cams, which we all know is what dictactes how much power an engine makes the majority of time.
Supreme Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 0
From: heartland
Car: 89rs (previous 2.8)
Engine: 406
Transmission: 700r4 (for now)
[i] some of us are not rich nor do we live with MOMMY and have no obligations so we can't affford the best of the best, but unlike so many on here I won't give up when MOMMY and DADDY won't buy it for me, I will keep plugging along and eventually have something I can enjoy without feeling like I owe it to anybody.
NOW that I'm off my soapbox, does anyone have any constructive advice they would like to impart ??? [/B]
NOW that I'm off my soapbox, does anyone have any constructive advice they would like to impart ??? [/B]
http://www.hioutput.com/tech.html
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Supreme Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,743
Likes: 0
From: heartland
Car: 89rs (previous 2.8)
Engine: 406
Transmission: 700r4 (for now)
IMHO you will need more cam that the xe268.....and port the heads....upgrade the springs and all the rest to handle more lift.
thexe268 is the largest cam you can use with the stock converter...you have to decide on the rest before you choose a stall...and spare no $$$ when it comes to your converter and shift kit..
thexe268 is the largest cam you can use with the stock converter...you have to decide on the rest before you choose a stall...and spare no $$$ when it comes to your converter and shift kit..
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,187
Likes: 43
From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
I'll put my oar in the water here...
If your bottom end is in reasonably good shape, you can get away with this on a budget. But, if you start talking pistons, block machine work, etc., bite the bullet and get a 350 core.
Your 305 should have flat-top pistons, so that's a plus. However, I bought an LB9 thinking the same thing - someone had rebuilt it with dished. Again, if you don't have a decent foundation, go get the 350 core.
The key to power is always the heads and cam. In bracket racing, the key is consistency, but the power tricks come in to play here (there are also some advantages to being faster than the other car). So, I'll say do the Standard Abrasives port work, put 1.94" intake valves in the heads, get some really good valve springs and retainers (dump the factory rotators).
Since this is race-only, go for a solid lifter cam. Again, consistency. Something in the 270-ish duration, .510 lift should get the job done. Roller tip rockers will help reduce friction and guide wear, 1.5's are fine. Full rollers would be better, but stay away from those cheap Proforms.
Hedman long tubes will do the job for exhaust. Get a 3000 stall converter. Holley or Demon 650 double pumper on a Stealth manifold. Performance ignition, of course.
Subframe connectors, poly bushings, boxed LCA's, LCA relocation brackets, slicks. Higher numerical ratio gears would be better, but your current gears will do.
It's never "cheap", but you can go out and have some fun.
Oh, make sure you put in a new oil pump...
If your bottom end is in reasonably good shape, you can get away with this on a budget. But, if you start talking pistons, block machine work, etc., bite the bullet and get a 350 core.
Your 305 should have flat-top pistons, so that's a plus. However, I bought an LB9 thinking the same thing - someone had rebuilt it with dished. Again, if you don't have a decent foundation, go get the 350 core.
The key to power is always the heads and cam. In bracket racing, the key is consistency, but the power tricks come in to play here (there are also some advantages to being faster than the other car). So, I'll say do the Standard Abrasives port work, put 1.94" intake valves in the heads, get some really good valve springs and retainers (dump the factory rotators).
Since this is race-only, go for a solid lifter cam. Again, consistency. Something in the 270-ish duration, .510 lift should get the job done. Roller tip rockers will help reduce friction and guide wear, 1.5's are fine. Full rollers would be better, but stay away from those cheap Proforms.
Hedman long tubes will do the job for exhaust. Get a 3000 stall converter. Holley or Demon 650 double pumper on a Stealth manifold. Performance ignition, of course.
Subframe connectors, poly bushings, boxed LCA's, LCA relocation brackets, slicks. Higher numerical ratio gears would be better, but your current gears will do.
It's never "cheap", but you can go out and have some fun.
Oh, make sure you put in a new oil pump...
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 2
From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Invest a good amount of money into a great quality converter from Yank, Precision, or Midwest.
Supreme Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,111
Likes: 53
From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Race it as is, and start building that drag motor (350 or 400 based)
Don't waste a dime trying to make the 305 fast.
Don't waste a dime trying to make the 305 fast.
thats kind of my goal, I am going to race it pretty much as it is. I have to pull the engine out so I can pull the t-5 and replace it with a TH350 I already have, I also have to replace some of the gaskets while I'm at it so I'll clean out the engine bay of all the weight while its out, since I'll have the motor out I thought I'd replace the cam,intake and port the heads. the bottom end is in pretty good shape and looks to have recently been redone. I already planed on doing the LCA/Panhard bar boxing and the subframes, I know I have alot of work to do but thats half the fun of it. I do plan on using the stock heads until I get a chance to build a GOOD motor, so I'll have to stick to a cam that will work without alot of work ($$$) to the heads, I will do the screw in studs myself and I don't want to run guide plates.
thanks for the advice and opinions, keep 'em comming, what is the most lift I can get on factory configured heads ???
thanks for the advice and opinions, keep 'em comming, what is the most lift I can get on factory configured heads ???
Supreme Member
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,428
Likes: 2
From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
If you use the narrow base conical CompCams springs, trim the tops of the guides down, and open up the pushrod holes you can get at least .550 and maybe a little more.
your car sounds like a perfect car for this.
mildy clean up the intake side of your heads, just smooth it all out. on the exhaust side, get to work, remove alot of material, maximum flow would be necessity here.
stock valves, dont bother with anything else on a 305.
get a good nitrous grind like with maybe 515 / 530 exhaust with maybe 215/225 ish duration at .050,
650 double pumper
good springs, victor jr or torker 2,
headman 1 5/8 long tubes
250 plate shot.
there, 305 that will actually get out of its own way.
mildy clean up the intake side of your heads, just smooth it all out. on the exhaust side, get to work, remove alot of material, maximum flow would be necessity here.
stock valves, dont bother with anything else on a 305.
get a good nitrous grind like with maybe 515 / 530 exhaust with maybe 215/225 ish duration at .050,
650 double pumper
good springs, victor jr or torker 2,
headman 1 5/8 long tubes
250 plate shot.
there, 305 that will actually get out of its own way.
Supreme Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 6,111
Likes: 53
From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Max port the heads. If your not going to upgrade to 1.94 valves
don't bother porting them. not worth it. they need the bigger valves. 30deg back cut both valves. You can even rob a set of good used 1.94's out of a 350 head.
Get a Comp 268H-10 high energy cam.
specs are 218/218 .454 .454 on 110
Pin the rocker studs and by a cheap set of stock diameter hi perf
springs. Shim the springs up to 1.75" installed height
Ex will need .090" of shim. remove rotators.
Buy a used dual plane high rise intake and port match to your ported heads. Your qjet will do fine with some edlelbrock tuning
parts.
Mill the heads as much as you dare to increase the true compression ratio to just under 10:1 for street gas.
about .060" or just to the spark plug boss.
Run Champion RV8c sparkplugs for the track.
Get some gear for that rear like 4.10's and a high stall converter.
I'd sell of the 9 bolt and build a budget 7.5 with 4.10's.
www.competitionproducts.com
don't bother porting them. not worth it. they need the bigger valves. 30deg back cut both valves. You can even rob a set of good used 1.94's out of a 350 head.
Get a Comp 268H-10 high energy cam.
specs are 218/218 .454 .454 on 110
Pin the rocker studs and by a cheap set of stock diameter hi perf
springs. Shim the springs up to 1.75" installed height
Ex will need .090" of shim. remove rotators.
Buy a used dual plane high rise intake and port match to your ported heads. Your qjet will do fine with some edlelbrock tuning
parts.
Mill the heads as much as you dare to increase the true compression ratio to just under 10:1 for street gas.
about .060" or just to the spark plug boss.
Run Champion RV8c sparkplugs for the track.
Get some gear for that rear like 4.10's and a high stall converter.
I'd sell of the 9 bolt and build a budget 7.5 with 4.10's.
www.competitionproducts.com
Last edited by F-BIRD'88; Feb 20, 2003 at 04:10 PM.
THANKS GUYS, now thats the kind of information that is helpfull. maybe in a year or so I'll be able to build the 406 I want the right way, I wish I could tell the future, I just sold a 412 short block because I thought it was too much for my street car, if i had known then what I know now all this would be in vain and I'd be worrying ya'll about how to REALLY build some power.. OH WELL !!!!
http://camaroz28.cardomain.com/membe...rolet%20Camaro
That's a 305 that runs 11.6 second 1/4 miles. You could probably learn a thing or two from him.
That's a 305 that runs 11.6 second 1/4 miles. You could probably learn a thing or two from him.
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