After finally getting everything straightened out with the Accel base,SLP runners, plenum install I was ready to try to start it again. Cranking and cranking and nothing. Smell of fuel in engine bay. I assume its flooded or fouled plugs from the timing being off and trying to start it. Crank some more and give it gas and start to hear popping from muffler, almost like a muffled backfire. Then a cloud of fuel shoots out from under the intake, right in the area of the cold start injector. Valve cover dripping gas and my worst nightmare is now realized. I must have messed something up when I put the intake on. I used GM gaskets with GM gasket sealer. Torqued them to spec in the proper order. Now this. I guess I have to rip it all apart again. What did I do wrong? Anyone have any ideas of anything else it could be? Help, I've reached my wits end with this car. I should have just left it stock instead of trying to work on it.

 

Sounds like the dist is in wrong.

Find #1 firing, turn the oil pump shaft until it's at about a 30° angle from right rear to left front, hold the dist body in the position it needs to be in, turn the rotor until it's about 20°to the front of straight to the driver's side, drop the dist it. Should fire right up.

Don't think the brand of gaskets or sealer is causing your problem, and you don't really need to go tearing it back down... at least not yet.

 

The first time I tried to start the car after getting everything back together, it would start but run really bad(missing,sputtering,etc.) and shut right off if I didn't give it gas. I turned the distributor a little and then it wouldn't start again. I turned it the other way to no avail. It would barely turn over like the starter was hanging up. I figured the timing was off. I pulled #1 plug and got the piston going on the up stroke. I turned the crank with a wrench until the timing mark was on the zero. I then pulled the cap and like I suspected, the rotor was pointing toward the wrong wire. I turned the oil pump shaft and did what you described and got the distributor in with the rotor pointing towards #1 like its supposed to be. Do you think it could be 180 out, i've heard that before. The thing is the cloud of gas shooting out wasn't there when I first tried to start it with the timing way off. Do you think if it is 180 out and I turn it, the gasket will be OK. Maybe it's shooting out because the timing 180 out? Thanks for your help.

 

If you have the #1 piston at TDC, and the rotor pointing at the #1 wire tower, it should run! You could have some spark plug wires hooked up wrong. The firing order is printed on the intake. The pistons are numbered like this. The evn numbered pistons are on the passenger side. From the front of the engine back towards the firewall, they are 2, 4, 6, and 8. On the drivers side are the odd numbered pistons. Front to back, 1, 3, 5, and 7. I've worked on cars for a long long time and I still put spark plug wires on wrong sometimes! I seriously doubt that your intake has anything to do with it. Either you do it right or you don't. I'm sure that your problem is something simple. Most likely you have some spark plug wires in the wrong spots. Look for the firing order on the intake. I can't remember if the rotor turns clockwise or counter clockwise. Should be in whatever manual you are using. It's something simple. I'm almost positive. It's always the simple stuff that stumps me for a while! Matt

 

Thanks guys. I'll go check it again tomorrow with a clear head. Right now I'm so frustrated, I just want to smash something. I've been fighting with this thing for a week now trying to get it running. You don't know how good it would feel for that split second if you could just smash something!!!

 

just keep up man... nothing's more satisfing then hearing your beast start up again :rockon:

 

Make sure the #1 cyl is at TDC on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke!
Careful using a wrench to turn the eng over, especially with the spark plugs installed. That bolt isn't all that strong. Many have been broken off inside the crank snout doing what you are doing.

I've always been able to grab the belts to turn the eng. It takes a little effort, but it's do-able. Make sure the ign is off!!

 

There are 2 instances of #1 TDC per complete engine cycle. One of them is #1 firing; the other is the end of the #1 exhaust stroke and beginning of #1 intake stroke, and is also #6 firing. You may very well have it on the wrong one. That is what is meant by being "180° out".

Try lifting your dist out; rotating the shaft exactly 180° and dropping it back in; and see if it runs. Be careful how you do it so that it hits the oil pump shaft correctly again.

 

Here's the latest. I was thinking what ZZ was, so me and a guy from work came home today and turned the distributor 180. It started. Wheww! It still is not quite right. It will run for a little while and then shut off. When I give it gas it backfires a little. The guy said it could be a tooth off on the gear. He turned the dist. with it running and couldn't get it to stay running. Any one have any tips on how to turn it back a tooth. When he turned dist. clockwise it would stall quicker, so I assume its too far advanced. Forgive me for sounding so mechanically declined, but this is my first major car project.

 

Double check your plug wires on the cap.

Set the initial timing to whatever you want. Clockwise is retard, counterclockwise is advanced.

Reset TPS and IAC sensors, and adjust idle.

Check for vacuum leaks.

 

Thanks to everyones help, made great progress tonight. Checked all the wiring and plug wires, OK. Set the TPS to .054 volts. The car actually ran and idled. I had to keep on the throttle for a while but when it warmed up it idled on its own, rough, but idling. It was backfiring terribly though. I do not hear any vacuum leaks. Could it be timing? When I give it gas it stumbles and doesn't rev up quickly. Maybe not enough fuel? Can someone tell me exact way to set the AFPR. I could try this next or any other suggestions anyone might have. That is how I got it this far. Thanks again.

 

it sounds like a timing issue. make sure you disconnect your timing connector to the ecm when you go to check it/set it. disconnect/reconnect it with the car off.

 

you know i had a similar problem. car would start, but only if i was giving it gas and cranking it over a lot. then when it started it would idle really high and have a CONSTANT backfire, popedy pop pop pop.

Well, it turned out to be 2 problems. #1 was the ignition, SImply put, i was using old wires / plugs / distributor / coil. after replacing these items the constant miss / backfire went away...

But there was one other problem. it still wouldnt idle, and it was still running rough.

<b>Check for vacuum leaks</b>
It was a huge vacuum leak at the back of the motor. plugged it up, no more problems.

 

Where was the leak from and how did you plug it. I'll check that right away. BTW- new plugs, wires, and cap from AC Delco.

 

start by checking your timing, it's the easiest thing to do.

to check for a vacuum leak you can first look at all your hoses/connectors and then take a propane torch, open it, and WITHOUT LIGHTING it wave it around all your vacuum lines with the engine running; if you suddenly hear a difference in how the engine is running then you've found your vacuum leak. the engine sucks propane through the source of the leak and that changes the idle

 

Well one leak was the brake booster hose, i forgot to plug it in. I noticed this when i put the car in gear and tried to stop....


the other leak was less notable. it was a rather small leak coming from my 4-item manifold hose. i have the tranny, boost guage, blower, BTM unit all connected to a curcuit. the headers burned the hose in half and created a vacuum leak.

 

Thanks for all the tips guys. I actually got it to run and idle pretty good tonight. I have no timing light(mine just broke) so I was just turning distributor while running. I locked it where it sounded the best. Then I could finally set the IAC now that it idled. No more backfiring, but it was still searching for a steady idle. At least it runs now, but when I put it in drive, it stumbled a little more. At least now I can take it somewhere to get it timed correctly. There still might be a vacuum leak that I have to check for. Another thing I noticed, when the car idled good the fuel pressure gauge would drop a couple of pounds. When it started to stumble the gauge would go back up. Does this sound normal?

 

Actually took it for a drive today. It took awhile for it to warm up so it would stay running long enough to pull out of the garage. It has a terrible miss and studder. When I gave it gas, it felt like I wasn't getting anywhere. It takes a while for it to rev up, almost like its starving for fuel. Then after driving for a while, it started to backfire again when I would give it gas. Does this still sound like a timing issue, or maybe a vacuum leak. I tried the propane test and couldn't find anything. Any more ideas or thoughts? Thanks for all the help so far. BTW I have an appointment for thursday to get it timed correctly, but I'd still like to have it running better by then.

 

The fuel pressure sounds perfectly normal. When it idles right, the vacuum goes up, that tells the FPR to lower the prseeure. When it stumbles, the vacuum goes away, which tells the FPR to raise the pressure.

Sounds to me like maybe it still has a vacuum leak somewhere.

 

Thanks Ukraine and thank you too, RB. I'll center my attention tomorrow on vacuum leaks. I'll go over every line and gasket there is.:hail: :rockon:

 

Hmm...

My car had a BAD MISS at idle. it would stutter and stutter, almost die. almost.

And when you gave it gas, it would stutter more and more... slowly slowly stuttering its way up the RPM band. it also had a constant BACKFIRE while doing it.

It was fuel starvation. somthing was clogged in the metering plate. i swapped fuel bowls / metering plates and it went away.

You obviouselly, dont have a carb, but my symptoms were as your were. it would also smoke slightly when i tried to give it gas. dont ask me why, though.

 

I was thinking of fuel starving also, King. My pressure gauge reads between 42-45# while idling with all of the lines hooked up. Does this sound about right.

 

Well fuel pressure is only half the battle. just because you have fuel pressure, doesnt mean the fuel is getting to the engine. it could be ANYTHING. Im no EFI guru, but it would make sense to ask myself are all the injectors working? is the ECM doing its job?

Im not sure what kind of programing has gone into the ECU but if you've never run it maybe somthing is a-miss...

what about timing? i seem to have forgotten where you stood on that.

 

Well King, I put new injectors in, and I don't think there is any leakage anywhere because when I shut the car off the pressure stays up for around 15-20 minutes. The latest is that the day before I was taking it to a mechanic to get it timed, it was acting like it has been. But, after driving it for around a half hour, it actually started to run pretty good!? The miss almost went completely away and it idled pretty good. I don't understand at all. What does this sound like. It's getting timed tomorrow, then I'll know more. If it was really out of time or what?

 

hmmmm

the miss went away you say? completelly? or sort of?

When my car starts (cold) it has a miss, almost sounds like a cam. wants to die, wants to do all sorts of un-car-like stuff.

the reason is simple. in my case, its because I have no choke. I've got to warm up the motor till it can use heat to atomize the fuel. simple.

In your case, if this IS the problem, then your afterstart enrichment is too lean. not enough fuel to keep it running when cold. <b> If thats your problem, that is </b>

It could also be timing, if the motor is too far retarded when cold it will run like it (retarded) hehe...

does it perform under part throttle or does it <i>PERFORM</i>? Is there any indication of a sluggish throttle response? any indication of a stutter or jerk such as from a lean spot? what im getting at is, are you sure your ECU is getting the correct amount of fuel to the injectors at all times? obviousellty, if its afterstart enrichment is wrong, something else could be too.

 

You need a dang timing light man. Go to Autozone and rent one.

JUST Do it. 6*

 

What size injectors did you add?
When you set the fuel pressure the vacuum hose must be disconnected and plugged. If not then your are running almost 10psi more fuel than you thought.

 

Got it back from the shop today. Timing was off a little. The cold start injector o-ring was causing a small vacuum leak. Idles nice now and runs good. I really noticed how the Accel base and SLP runners moved the powerband higher up in the rev range. I did lose a little low end grunt, but gained top end. Does this sound right? One other thing I noticed, in overdrive at low rpms cruising around 1000-1500 rpms, the car shakes like a miss or vibration, hard to tell. When I drop it to drive rpms go up a little and miss/vibration go away. Any ideas on this. And Danny, I added the Ford 21# injectors, same rate, just supposed to be balanced better and have a better spray.

 

Glad to hear its finnaly fixed! I knew it was either a vacuum leak or fuel problem. The shake could be a strain on the motor, I know when you go too big on a cam then try to cruise at a LOW rpm it will sort of lug and shake the whole car because its not in its powerband. The change of Runners and base (less low end) may have a part in that. I dont know for sure, though, is anyone else running that combo have enough low end to cruise around 1500 RPMS? thats pretty low. my 3.73 / 700R4 car cruises at 2500~.
Just a thought. did you swap the cam by any chance?