(If you dont have a cheker auto parts store, its like autozone.)
I'm thinking of buying a new crate motor instead of rebuilding mine. Think an engine from a parts store would be okay? Should I have mine rebuilt? I dont want to spend much more that $700, and I think I may have a bent piston rod in my current engine.

86 T/A 305 TPI ATX

 

If i was you, i would get a 4 bolt 350 block and rebuild your motor around that block. Just my .02

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85 Z28 (Soon to be GMPP 350 HO)
Headman Hedders and matching y-pipe, Edelbrock Performer, Ram Air, Accell cap and rotor, Accell Supercoil, 160 stat, highflow Catco converter, absolutely no other smog equipment, B&M shift kit, Rapidfires, numerous carb mods, and flex-a-light fan.

"If you think education is expensive, try ignorance."-Ben Franklin

[This message has been edited by R Defever (edited July 22, 2000).]

 

for simple replacement engine, YES
for HI-PO replacement, uh, not reallya good choice.

my .02

 

not really. Find a good machine shop, and have them build you one. The one I work for sells a long block 350 Hipo for $1000.

 

They are crap. I installed an AutoZone engine for somebody, and I spent more time getting it "right" than I did the actuall install.

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"I used to have a handle on life, but then I used it as a plunger and broke it" -The Wave

ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA
'87 Trans Am-K&N,Cold air induction, SSM SFC, Flowmaster, 16" GTA rims.
'97 Bonneville SSE
About Me

 

A Hi-po 350 long block for only $1000? that's pretty damn good. How Hi-po is it?


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86 Trans Am WS6: The muscle car lives

 

First thing you need to do is find out who makes the motor?I bought a 305 longblock from a speed shop that was made by ADK.It was an exact replacement right down to the peanut cam. Make sure it's a direct replacement for the yr. of your car and not just a 305.

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86 IROC mods:T.E.S.,Flowmaster muffler
T.P.I.S. airfoil,ported plenum,March
pulleys,Accel 8.8wires,supercoil,ign.mod.
RAM AIR induction,gutted MAF,
B&M shift kit,3.73 rear gears,Accel afpr,Hypertech stage 2 chip,Random Tech.cat.,Lakewood lower control arms,Lakewood adj.panhard rod
"The more I learn about women,the more
time & money I spend on my IROC"

 

I can tell you to stay away from the Spartan Engine that they sell, there is one engine supplier called Global Engines that makes an top notch engine all new parts, as for the warranty if you have a claim you have to deal with the manufacturer, I can tell you that you will get 10% off any accessory you buy when you get an engine from CSK, and that the priceing is good.

Morgan

 

I am curious what you had to do go get it "right" GMTech? It would seem if something was actually wrong with the engine you would have just pulled it back out and gotten another under the warranty. I am not sure if that means that the engine was ok but took some adjusting to get the fuel injection system or such to work properly with it, or if you dug in to the long block to solve the problems yourself. I am trying to gather as much info on these cheap rebuilds as I can because they seem to have a bad reputation. Right now I am under the impression that they have a bad reputation from engine builders because they aren't built as tight and perfect as a $4,000 350 long block. Sure they aren't, but the question is are they a reliable replacement engine. It seems that more people are inclined to dump $1000 on a machine shop to throw together a cheap rebuild. The machine shop cannot save money through a production line rebuild like Recon can. Is the extra $300 actually well spent money, or just the loss of efficiency in a one-off rebuild?

[This message has been edited by Dr. Pepper (edited July 23, 2000).]

 

Doc,

That's true, but the bad rep is earned in more dastardly ways too. As a rule, excepting GM new crate shortblocks, the "rebuilder" parts store motors are raggedy-ahzz junk compared to a GM or pro motor.

-Use of blocks with severe casting shift
-fast-and-nasty resizing of rod
-cheapo rod bolts
-cast pistons with cheapo cast rings
-cheesy bearings
-no line hone
-questionable finish cylinder honing
-no clearance checks
-not balanced

The extra $$ invested in forged pistons, moly rings, good rod bolts, and a basic balance will repay the user in the form of many years of trouble-free racing.

SDPC, Jim Pace, and many other big dealers offer quality short and long blocks, with warranty, for not much more dinero. I think they're well worth it. GM has some nice stuff in their catalogue now, and the prices seem reasonable. Build quality is way up there too (thousands of factory short blocks are serving bracket race duty right now).

BOR

 

Do you think for $1000 or $1200 you are getting forged pistons and high quality moly rings and a race quality block that has been line honed? Do you know how much most machine shops charge for a line hone? As for the balancing, as long as the pistons are replaced with pistons that are roughly the same weight as the originals rebalancing isn't required. The engines weren't that accurately balanced to begin with, minor changes aren't going to make a difference. As a rebuilder that is rebuilding thousands of engines that are the same design and application it isn't hard to take care of. As a machine shop it is a little harder to make sure all of the engines are in balance without actually balancing them. I don't have much of a problem with a cheap $1200 or so new GM engine, its not a bad deal. It still is nearly twice what you can get a rebuilt engine for. I also would say that the engine's quality is not that much improved. GM doesn't do any more or less of a clearance check than a normal rebuilder does, they just mix/match the bearings to get roughly the clearance they want. Do you think GM is ultrasonically testing the blocks for core shift when they rebuild them? Do you think they are using moly rod bolts or forged pistons? The only way you get any of that stuff is if you pay way more than the rebuilt engine for a performance crate engine. The only real improvement of the GM engine is that it is brand new. This isn't a big deal and does have a down side. The block, crank, and rods are not set yet. The engine will lose a little power and is a little less reliable under power from this. The block will set and distort the cylinder walls a little. The crank and rods will also change a little changing the bearing clearances. No matter how much better the machining process is virgin parts are not as good for performance as seasoned parts. I think you proved my point, your expectations for a regular rebuilt or replacement engine are too high. You want a replacement Corvette engine, not a regular production engine. Production engines will never meet your expectations if any V8 engine at a minimum must be blueprinted and balanced with all forged and top quality parts. If you want a good engine you can beat on in a 350-450hp range then yes you probably shouldn't opt for the cheap rebuild. At the same time it is acceptable to use cast pistons, cast piston rings and so forth. GM has worked along these lines for decades with good reliable engines.


[This message has been edited by Dr. Pepper (edited July 23, 2000).]

 

Doc,

$1,461 complete investment in 327 short block, including all machine work, TRW pistons with moly rings, ARP rod bolts, good bearings, timing set, freeze plugs, hot tank,and the balancing to boot. BUT - in re-reading the original post, I see the budget is $700. So, no, it costs more than his budget, but not too much more than your $1,200 target Doc.

Also, I agree with your statement about "green" blocks and other parts - it's fact.
However, nobody ever knows how many times a given "cheapo" block has been bored, and more importantly - HOW many times has the crank been turned? Is it .010/.010 or is it .040/.040 ?

That's why I would trust GM's new stuff - it is not turned or bored beyond spec.

I'll stick to my original premise - good is good and junk is junk. I agree with the upper HP limit you suggested on cast pistons too - and on this page, at least 50% of the readers will actually need a forged piston short block.

BOR

 

Dr.P, I didn't mean for it to sound "that bad" but after instilation, I ran into some problems. The biggest problem was the valve lash. This engine was supposedly "test run" at the factory. After installing and letting run, two of the rockers were just banging away. I removed the cover and adjusted. They were way loose. Let the vehicle warm up and noticed a very noticable miss. Found cylinder #2 dead. Run a compression test, found very low compression on #2. After awhile of diagnosing, I found that the intake valve was stuck open (hence the backfire through the carb on snap throttle). So then I had to re-remove the rocker covers and adjust ALL the valves. I adjust valves with engine running, and back off untill the rockers start tapping. I had to turn some back 4 full turns!!! No wonder the valves were hung open. So if some were overtight, and others blatently loose, either the engine was not run like said, or it was run and they said "the hell with it". Not to mention, now I question the reliability of the bottem end. I have learned you ALWAYS get what you pay for. If you buy a $700 motor, that is exactly what you get, and should expect $700 worth of engine and no more.

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"I used to have a handle on life, but then I used it as a plunger and broke it" -The Wave

ASE Master Tech + L1
Savannah, GA
'87 Trans Am-K&N,Cold air induction, SSM SFC, Flowmaster, 16" GTA rims.
'97 Bonneville SSE
About Me

[This message has been edited by GMTech (edited July 23, 2000).]