86IROC350NY

OK,
my car has become an income pit since I bought it. After a Head/cam/intake swap I have been having this coughing through the #1 cylinder exh. They owner of the auto body that have been doing the work told me that its a bad cam lobe. He has been the only one working on the car since he wants the job "done right." I have been told by another mechanic not to buy the lobe story, and to get on him to fix the car since i have sunk a lot of money into it.

This is the problem...under a load (uphill) or when I mash the pedal it backfires thru the intake. if I ease into it the car doesn't sputter. The damn thing is dog slow!!!

i thought it was the spark plugs since the autolite 3924s were the ones recommended for those heads and they were using acdelcos. The autolites had .5 inch more thread on them and they didn't work. i told them the timing was too davanced but they said that SBCs liked a lot of advance...especially with rad cams. but 58* total...DAMN.

The cam was used...250 miled, bought by a guy who had it in his truck...but it was too rad for his computer. I checked the lobes and there was barely a line on the lobes from the lifter wear.

any other ideas? I was thinking the dist was put in wrong because of the last time when the car drove fine for an hour before the #1 rocker came loose...they machined down the top of the studs to fix that...now it backfires!!!

The damn car won't stay started when I turn it over unless i cive it gas, and I need to mash my foot on the pedal for about 10 secs before it fires up (sounds like the timing is too advanced like whup, whup..pause..whup, whup).

Anyone want to buy this car for 4500 9unless you can help)? The STB, SFCs, lift bars and shocks/struts haven't been installed, but they come in for free...plus all other parts I had on it before the swap (car was a LOT faster then). Or maybe you can figure out what the hell is wrong...I could have bought a 4th gen with the money i dropped on this car.

--Dan

JP84Z430HP

Who recommended Autolite plugs for your GM product? If it was the head manufacturer, I'd change heads (Kidding, but I like AC Delco plugs in a GM products), but you need to make absolutely sure you have the correct type plug in there, and at least close on the heat range.

On timing, 58* sounds like a lot to me! All the advance shouldn't be brought on by giving it a large amount of initial timing either! You shouldn't have to start it the way you're talking about!

One more question, why are you having someone that specializes in auto body work wrench on your car? I'm confident that a good auto-tech will be able to fix your problem with relative ease! I'm not saying that an auto-body guy has no business under the hood, but he likely doesn't get training gear toward engines, etc.... I'm not looking to step on anyones toes with my comments, just wanting you to get the best person wotking on your car!

If you are curious about a cam lobe being bad, it's easy to find out! The valve covers need to come off, and you can watch the rocker arms move and get a rough idea of whether they're moving equally. A more accurately way to check them is with a dial indicator to see how much the thing ACTUALLY moves.

Good luck!

86IROC350NY

The owner is a mechanic. he was the first to put a 460 BB in a capri..then Hot Rod mag wrote an article on how to do it. Thats why he does the work...he has experience with engine work. I just think he is being busy. Plus my friend was a mech at a chevy dealership, and now he works for his bro (the owner) to get more hours (towing and mechanic work).

The autolites were recommended by Trick Flow for my chevy heads...yet are the same plugs my mustang buddy (12smustang) uses in his AFRs
Thanks for the post!!
--Dan

JP84Z430HP

I saw something about stubbornness to back the timing back down in your "timing" post, and that makes me wonder how good this guy is. As I said before, I'm not out to make the guy look bad, but the people on here giving you ideas deal with this stuff. In fact, until cars started coming without distributors, I dealt with this sort of stuff all day long!

I'd reccomend backing the thing down to where you get somewhere around 40 degress total advance, and I bet it will at least start much better! The sad thing about my saying this is that I have no idea where my total advance is! It doesn't help that it's difficult to check because of the computer controlling the timing, and load being a factor in that!

Why was it that the longer Autolite plugs wouldn't work? If they are the plug that Trick Flow reccomend for those heads, they WILL work, unless the heads have been re-machined. If it's the length they're looking at, it is likely that the right plug to fit in the heads you're running would need to be longer than what the vehicle had in it originally due to head design. My original engine (LG4) took a short threaded plug, and the Fast-burns that I now have take a long threaded plug. If the plug is not out in the combustion chamber like it should be, it can't light the fuel mixture properly!

Good Luck!

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

Geez 58* total timing? I run 38* total without problems.

dsaint1347

Hmm... do you have pics of your?
Don't get a Neon, mostly gays in NYC use them, nothing against homo's though.

RB83L69

So have you looked at the valves to see if they're all moving the same amount?

You've got the type of motor where you don't need to be paying somebody else to work on it. You need to understand how it works, and get in there and work on it yourself. If there's some reason you can't take care of it yourself, then maybe buying a newer car is the answer; a car with a motor like that is GOING to require lots of maintenance and careful tuning, it isn't something you just slap together and slam the hood and get a 10 yr/100,000 mile warranty on.

I'd bet, with those heads and that much cam, that you have a valve train interference problem somewhere, and you've wiped a cam lobe (maybe more than one).

There's nothing wrong with Autolite plugs, as far as this problem is concerned. I'm sure we all have our prejudices and favorites, but that sort of thing isn't factual, and isn't funny either.

Ignore the timing; and the EGR too. Leave the newbie buzzwords alone. Find the real problem, and don't "tell" the "mechanic" that it has too much "timing" if you can't measure it and set it correctly yourself.

86IROC350NY

I couple of months ago, they gave me the car back. I noticed smoke coming back into the cabin and I could hear the rockers tapping. When I brought it back to them the #1 exh rocker came loose and was causing a horrible backfire through the intake, and they had to drive it about .25 of a mile back to the shop.
They had to machine the rockers and studs to fix the problem. Could this have caused the lobe to be wiped out?

I would have tried to do this myself, but the time was a factor. I knew I would have problems, and sports and school gave me no time. West Point is pretty busy. But I HAD money to pay someone...until a 1000 job turned into 3300, then they said a vac leak was causing the problem, then I spent another 900 on brakes...blah...blah. I have been more than understanding with these guys. I hate to get on them to hurry up with my car because I am friends with the owner's bro who also works there, but they have had it since october...and I have lost hundreds in insurance alone. Now they want to charge me for putting in ANOTHER cam.

I just want to know if the timing is the problem or the cam...or if the cam lobe is their fault for not putting the rockers on right when the #1 came loose (funny how the #1 is giving problems now).

Any buyers??? 4,500 firm with everything. email me for pics
x34858@usma.edu

--Dan

RB83L69

Problem is, if something about the valve train is interfering — anything from rocker slots being too short, to valve srings coil binding, to piston-valve contact — you can change cams all day, and it will simply wipe out another one. Wiped-out cam lobes are almost always a symptom of something else not fitting right, not a primary failure themselves.

There's your clue right there. What probably happened, is that whatever exactly it is that's interfering, damaged the rocker stud; a sure sign of something hitting something else hard.

The problem isn't the timing. Forget that, don't even think about it.

What I'd suggest you do, is go to your local speed shop, NOT some normal "mechanic" who works on people's grocery carts all the time, or even somebody that does unusual motor swaps. After all, you can do that without ever taking a valve cover off; you don't have to know a thing about what's inside the motor to jam it in some car it wasn't originally inrended to go in. You need a specialist. You need someone who is familiar with high-perforance and racing engines generally, and Trick Flow heads in particular.

Personally I tink there's something wrong with #1; and it isn't the rocker, and it isn't the cam. Whatever it is, has destroyed those parts; but they are the victims, not the problem. I would suspect valve spring coil bind, retainer-to-valve-guide clearance too small, valve-to-piston clearance problems.... moving parts hitting metal.

zippy

buy the neon.

AJ_92RS

Perhaps they would have seen this, but then again maybe not... but aren't the older TFS heads infamous for broken valve springs?

If they overlooked one, and tried something else to get the rocker arm to line up, the broken spring would still be there and NOT keep everything in alignment.

Just a thought.

86IROC350NY

they are the new ones. Bought them from ebay. They have the dual valve springs from comp, and new valves. They were milled and ported 9My guess was that they were from a blown motor and the guy who sold them works at Briodix...so he ported them and polished them)

--Dan

Vader

That's one way to get a good look at the rear of an 'F' car.

If the lobe is wiped out, no amount of tuning or adjusting, tweaking, or doctoring will repair it. Then again, if a lobe is wiped out, the dial indicator will not lie. Ask him the measuremed the gross lobe lift of the suspected failed lobe. If he's determined it's a bad lobe, he should have the measurements already.

94-6spd

I can't help thinking that when the #1 came loose what really happened is the cam lobe wore down causing the rocker to be loose. Also, there is no way the timing should be that high. The total advance should be 32-36 by 3000 rpm. Initial timing from 10-16 degrees.

Also, take off the distributor cap and make sure the cap and rotor is fine. A bad ignition and timing advanced too far will cause the hard starting and lack of power.

zippy

i'm most certainly not a fan of any dodge product, but an srt-4 neon woud hand over half of the third gen members their ***. as for the f-body at hand, a car with these kind of problems only gets more expensive to an owner who has no choice but to trust someone else who may or may not be able to fix his problem. this is one of the reasons more newer cars are hot rodded, less hassle, less problems, bolt on parts, and a warrenty.

mw66nova

iTrader: (13)

ok, you got double coil springs on the heads, what cam lift and duration do you have? is it possible that the springs are too much for the cam and you have wipped out the lobe that way? just another suggestion to figure out this problem...