So, the engine is in the car, stuff not hooked up yet.

What starters are u guys using? Do you think a stock TPI starter will do the trick?

Thanks

 

i think the LT4 one may be a gear reduction style, don't hold me to it though

whereabouts in ohio are you from?

 

Mine did (11.5:1) but not when hot!

LT1 and some Vette TPI starters are the better choice if you want to stay with a stocker.

Mark

 

yea the LT1/4 starters are gear reduction hi torque starters...

 

How much are they? I am from Toledo, Ohio.

Mark, did you buy a mini starter?

 

I am running a LT1 starter. I am running around 10:1 and have no problems, but I got put it on for header clearance rather than for more starting power. I payed 600 for mine. Well.... I guess it did come with an LT1 attached though. I dont know how much the go for honesly though.

Ben

 

Yes, I bought a mini, it was a Tilton unit and I have zero complaints about it. Since then however, I have used the Vette starter and it works great also.

Mark

 

I have trouble with the stocker on 10.5:1 when its hot. I wouldn't suggest it at 11.0:1.

 

I called a DAP place for a new LT1 and it was $220. Ouch

Anyone else getting away with a stocker?

 

you can get a mini starter out of summit for 150 bucks. My stocker couldn't handle 9.5:1 compression on a 350 when it was hot, so i doubt yours has much of a prayer.

Eric

 

It may work somewhat. I seriously doubt you will find it satisfactory.

I ended up with a CVR mini-starter on my 10½:1 400. My stock starter was far too weenie to have any chance. I got real sick of sitting places waiting for the engine to cool down enough that the starter could turn it, or deliberately flooding the motor so it would start spinning instead of firing on the first cylinder it came to and spinning the starter backwards, etc.

 

as said above, it should work, but not when hot... it will heat soak..


i would get a nice ministarter... i had one from summit, it turned over a 10.5:1 400 SBC just fine.. even when hot.

 

Does heat soak occur because the starter is hot, the solenoid is hot, or because the engine is hot and thus has tighter clearances?

 

It is not "heat soak". IMHO that is a myth, invented to cover up for starters that are too weak in the first place. The problem is that with a big-inch motor with high compression, when a cylinder fires while the starter is turning slow (somewhat before TDC due to the static ignition timing setting), there is too much cyl pressure for the starter to overcome; so the engine will actually turn itself backwards, and take the starter with it. Flooding the motor, so that it doesn't fire immediately when the first cylinder gets spark as the engine just begins to spin, allows it to gain enough RPMs that the inertia of the flywheel will keep it going the right way when cyls finally do begin to fire.

I lived with that crap for about 7 years in my 83. I am forced to admit that I was too stubborn to spend the moeny on a decent starter. I was much happier after I finally got rid of the stupid little tiny weenie stock POS that had trouble spinning just the 305 that it came with, and put a decent quality electric motor on it.

 

when the starter is really hot, it has alot more resistance in the windings.. because of that, enough power cant be supplied to it to over come that resistance and it wont turn the motor over...

 

this is more like a timing prob. not the starters fault. pull some advance out, and she would start.


or if it was a real hardcore motor, then you would have to do what the hardcore motor people do... get a box that pulls timing when you go to start it.... but anything short of a 12:1 big block, you shouldnt have to do that.

 

My MSD does pull timing on start up.

 

It was not a "timing problem", it was the correct timing setting for the engine (where it made the most power).

Sometimes you gotta quit making excuses and apologizing for a poor product, and just do what you gotta do. This would be one of those cases.

AC/Delco direct-drive starter motors have long enjoyed a reputation for being weaker, heavier, and consuming more power than their competition; this is just another example of their overall stone-age design. Obviously even GM themselves recognized this, as they have finally abandoned that design, and changed to a better motor design with gear reduction.

And this Hitachi motor spins the 400 about twice as fast as the stock Delco one ever spun the 305. It isn't a timing issue, or heat soak, or any of those lame-assed excuses; it's an inadequate POS starter motor design. Wouldn't matter if I pulled timing out or not, the stock unit still isn't enough starter, period.

 

Aren't the 400 flywheels a different size? 168 teeth vs. 153 teeth? I didn't think the TPI starter would mate up to a 400 flywheel.

 

My stock starter turns over a 9.6:1 compression 350 fine when hot or cold. And I have headers.


I want a lt1 starter tho. Much smaller, lighter, and better. about 180$ + core at auto parts places tho.

 

Sure, a stock starter will turn over a 9.6 engine, that is about what an L98 comes with. I guess we should look at dynamic compression but static will work for comparision. But I have bigger main bearings, bigger springs, and more air to compress, etc. I know Buckeyeroc has a DAP starter on his car. It took us a few starters before the engine loosened up. He is at 10.0 with a 355. Hey, isn't that what lifetime warranties are for?

I have an aftermarket SFI 153 tooth flywheel. So, the starter from an LT1 will probably work. I bought a CSI mini today. I got the staggered pattern. I drilled the other bolt hole but I think I was about 50 thousands off. So, I decided to get the offset starter. I better not have issues with a 250 dollar starter!!!!!

I hooked up a stock starter and the engine went over at like 10 rpm. Maybe when it loosens up it would work but I am sure a few would nuke in the process. And that was with it cold......

 

I agree with RB83L69...

The stock GM starters suck...if the design was better than heat soak wouldn't be an issue in the 1st place.

I love my mini-starter and it works cold or hot....what a concept

Mine is a Tommy Johnson mini starter...

HTH,

 

So, the speedshop didnt order my starter, so I got desperate and stuck in a DAP huge one. It turned the motor over very well when cold, but when hot, won't even crank it. Just FYI.

 

Thats the way it was on my friends 87 Iroc and he didnt even have headers. On my car on the other hand I am running probably close to 10:1 compression and have long tubes and had no problems with the stock starter that I used until I got the LT1 starter.

Ben

 

RB is exactly right... I have basically the same car he has ('83 HO) and I still have the stock starter. It was fine on the 305 for awhile, but when my ** 8.5:1 CR ** 350 was put in, that really seemed to put the starter in a strain. It will still start it at any engine temperature, but the thing JUST BARELY turns over the engine fast enough to make it fire. Sometimes its bad enough that I have to listen really close to when it momentarily fires and give it a bit of throttle so that it makes enough of a 'bang' to actually run on its own.

Most of the time I dont have to do this, it usually fires right up, but there is the occasional time it will do that, and it isn't anything like my battery being dead/drained or alternator going. I've heard people say that to me, and it isn't that. Alternator makes ~14V and the battery is new and fresh. Its just a ****ty stock starter.

The only really good starters that aren't aftermarket parts are the 4x4 truck starters... those starters have some real *****.

 

I dont think even the stock one should have a problem turning over an 8.5 to one 350. Heck the 350 tpi's are about 9.3. I had a stock autozone replacement off of my 85 lg4 on my 10:1 350 and it had no problem. Now I have the lt1 starter because of clearance, but it was made for a 10.5:1 compression motor anyway. I am not saying that the stock starters dont suck, but if yours cant turn an 8.5:1 350 then I think that unless they changed something in them from 83-85 that there is something wrong.

Ben

 

I have to agree with Momar on that one. I've always wanted to buy an aftermarket mini starter for my 10.5:1 motor in my 69 Camaro, but always manage to find other things to blow the money on. As long as my battery is good, the stock one still manages to do the job. If a starter is that weak, then it's obviously on its last legs, or you have a crummy battery, connections, etc. Once again, I'm not making excuses for the stock ones, as I plan to get a better one eventually too.