not trying to be rude but....
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 2,789
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From: NOR CAL USA
Car: 89 iroc-z 5.7tpi 350,
Engine: 5.7tpi 350,
Transmission: T-56
this is the most bull **** thread....all in all the mudstain beat out the camaro for pricing.... for the base irocz it is 12,675 and for a mudstain 11,324 for price as tested usually fully loaded was 18,179 for the iroc-z vs 12,548 for the rustang thats the reason ford won over
as far as tpi goes what a crock of ****...if it was such a bad system why would they carry it over to the 4th gen??? in LT1 tpi hmm....lets think about that one..
as far as tpi goes what a crock of ****...if it was such a bad system why would they carry it over to the 4th gen??? in LT1 tpi hmm....lets think about that one..
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
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From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by Morley
Apples to oranges. Performance is not the reason the mustang beat out the F bodies in sales. It was marketing, pure and simple.
Apples to oranges. Performance is not the reason the mustang beat out the F bodies in sales. It was marketing, pure and simple.
Originally posted by Red Devil
...It won the hearts of 'gearheads' (which is really those who run and build 'em themselves), women (which drive the market guys!!) and posers (wannabe gearheads) for the ability to 'hang' with simple mods. ...
...It won the hearts of 'gearheads' (which is really those who run and build 'em themselves), women (which drive the market guys!!) and posers (wannabe gearheads) for the ability to 'hang' with simple mods. ...
No, wasn’t maketing. I saw more ads for the F-body than I did the Fox, but women liked the Fox better. It was more comfortable, better ‘feel’ while driving and more affordable. They drive sales as previously mentioned.
Start reading the whole thread boys, or stop replying to me. Ignorance really aggravates me. Let me bring you up to speed (condensed version):
Originally posted by Red Devil
TPI, for it's time was indeed an awe inspiring site. Until you had to race one. For real. However, the tuned design was, and still is very good and in fact looks kick ***.
…
…No boys, it was not just one or two things that killed the f-body, but very many. If you want to stick it on one single biggie, blame women. They are sales. The secondary market was power, and GM was PERCEIVED as the loser there too...
…Ford, not only saw this, but also took advantage of it. They sold cheap. What they did sell in bigger motors they made easily upgradeable. They designed for the sound of the bloody exhaust for cryin' out loud! …The damn TPI is a bitch to work on, and responds like molasses on a cold morning to easy bolt on mods (notwithstanding a head swap).
Thus Ford also dominated in PERCEPTION of the power of their cars. When you run and you lose, you remember. Since the foxes responded so well to simple bolt on upgrades, everyone that ran, knew how fast you could get 'em to go. With less busted knuckles. The guys going down to watch you run, and see you lose, go out and buy what they see win. (If you don't beleive this, go back and find out how quick ford implemented then killed it's SD in the Mustang, fun fact)…
So Ford now has both the underlying money market as well as the performance market. Do you think that may have carried over a bit into the newer models. Damn strait it did. … If you own a mustang and want another sports car, what will you first test drive?
By the time the fourth gen was stillborn, the mustang had such a following that it could have dedicated magazines (plural) published for it. The aftermarket for that one car surpasses any other in history (please don't give me the chevy 350... I said car).
Do you think it was an accident that ford threw in the 302 into the first two years if the SN model? They even transitioned people into the new model! These guys are ****ing slick!
Ford has had some of the best marketing {stratagy} in the auto industry for the last 15 years. They won in the family market, the won in the sports market, they even had the heads up enough to tap into the ri<x>cer market!!
Now what do you think ford has set it's sights on now? It may be either the 'Vette or the Viper. Seen the new GT-40? Ouch. (read: I WANTWANTWANT one!!)
... Before you make a judgment, you better have owned 'em and worked 'em. I have and do, and speak from years of experience.
TPI, for it's time was indeed an awe inspiring site. Until you had to race one. For real. However, the tuned design was, and still is very good and in fact looks kick ***.
…
…No boys, it was not just one or two things that killed the f-body, but very many. If you want to stick it on one single biggie, blame women. They are sales. The secondary market was power, and GM was PERCEIVED as the loser there too...
…Ford, not only saw this, but also took advantage of it. They sold cheap. What they did sell in bigger motors they made easily upgradeable. They designed for the sound of the bloody exhaust for cryin' out loud! …The damn TPI is a bitch to work on, and responds like molasses on a cold morning to easy bolt on mods (notwithstanding a head swap).
Thus Ford also dominated in PERCEPTION of the power of their cars. When you run and you lose, you remember. Since the foxes responded so well to simple bolt on upgrades, everyone that ran, knew how fast you could get 'em to go. With less busted knuckles. The guys going down to watch you run, and see you lose, go out and buy what they see win. (If you don't beleive this, go back and find out how quick ford implemented then killed it's SD in the Mustang, fun fact)…
So Ford now has both the underlying money market as well as the performance market. Do you think that may have carried over a bit into the newer models. Damn strait it did. … If you own a mustang and want another sports car, what will you first test drive?
By the time the fourth gen was stillborn, the mustang had such a following that it could have dedicated magazines (plural) published for it. The aftermarket for that one car surpasses any other in history (please don't give me the chevy 350... I said car).
Do you think it was an accident that ford threw in the 302 into the first two years if the SN model? They even transitioned people into the new model! These guys are ****ing slick!
Ford has had some of the best marketing {stratagy} in the auto industry for the last 15 years. They won in the family market, the won in the sports market, they even had the heads up enough to tap into the ri<x>cer market!!
Now what do you think ford has set it's sights on now? It may be either the 'Vette or the Viper. Seen the new GT-40? Ouch. (read: I WANTWANTWANT one!!)
... Before you make a judgment, you better have owned 'em and worked 'em. I have and do, and speak from years of experience.
Member
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 319
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
Car: 2007 Volvo S60R, 2005 Audi A4
Engine: 300HP 2.5L I5, 200HP 2.0L I4
Transmission: TF-80SC, Getrag 6 speed
Axle/Gears: 3.33:1, 3.54:1
Red, I don't think some will ever understand. Seems there will always be people that still think TPI has great HP potential, all musclecars ran 12's off the showroom floor, carbs have to be unmanagable anywhere outside the sunbelt, TPS enhancers and tornado intakes are worthwhile, $600 shortblocks will be reliable, and so on.
I think you and a few others have been quite concise, all the info is here now and those with some logic will be able to see what is crap in this thread and what is not.
I think you and a few others have been quite concise, all the info is here now and those with some logic will be able to see what is crap in this thread and what is not.
Supreme Member




Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,164
Likes: 780
From: Park City, UT
Car: '92 Corvette, '89 1/2-a-'Vette
Engine: LT1, L400
Transmission: ZF6, T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45, 3.31
Perpetuating the "IROC-Z" stereo type...
Originally posted by TPI
I coulda lit up a smoke, shifted into 1st and
begone by the time I had to worry about him pulling
on me....
...as I pulled past them with a grin and a Marlboro in my mouth
I coulda lit up a smoke, shifted into 1st and
begone by the time I had to worry about him pulling
on me....
...as I pulled past them with a grin and a Marlboro in my mouth
Last edited by Tom 400 CFI; Sep 15, 2004 at 12:33 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,067
Likes: 0
From: Staunton,illinois
Car: 1966 impala , 1998 sebring vert,1978 buick regal turbo, 1991 chevy silverado 3/4ton 4x4 lifted
Engine: 283, 2.5,3.8 turbo 350
Transmission: powerglide,auto overdrive, th350,4L80
thar aint nutin rong wit a mullit an six dirty kidz in diapars an a camaro up on blocks in front of my mobile home iz der?????......
LMAO...sorry couldnt help myself ...LOL....it does give you that image doesnt it ..
LMAO...sorry couldnt help myself ...LOL....it does give you that image doesnt it ..
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 0
From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by Morley
Marketing. Thank you very much.
Marketing. Thank you very much.
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 0
From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by 377Z
...there will always be people that still think ..tornado intakes are worthwhile...
...there will always be people that still think ..tornado intakes are worthwhile...
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,067
Likes: 0
From: Staunton,illinois
Car: 1966 impala , 1998 sebring vert,1978 buick regal turbo, 1991 chevy silverado 3/4ton 4x4 lifted
Engine: 283, 2.5,3.8 turbo 350
Transmission: powerglide,auto overdrive, th350,4L80
you mean there no good ??? i thought the tornado made like 75 extra horses....dang....
LMAO....:lala:
LMAO....:lala:
Supreme Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 3
From: Norwich, CT
Car: '89 Trans AM/'88 GTA
Engine: (2) Tuned Port L98's
Re: Perpetuating the "IROC-Z" stereo type...
Originally posted by Tom 400 CFI
What a classy image!
What a classy image!
You and your stereotypes are really startin to crawl
up my back.
Lemme tell ya somethin,' well maybe for all you
30-40 yr olds ...
I definatly am not poor ..
and I dont have a dam kid ..
and classy TOM CFI??? ... sh*t, what are you saving
yourself up to be huh??
all your pathetic stands on images
and stereotypes and very well kiss
my as*
cause this 21 year old right aint buying it
I definatly am not poor ..
and I dont have a dam kid ..
all your pathetic stands on images and stereotypes and very well kiss my as*
Supreme Member




Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,164
Likes: 780
From: Park City, UT
Car: '92 Corvette, '89 1/2-a-'Vette
Engine: LT1, L400
Transmission: ZF6, T5
Axle/Gears: 3.45, 3.31
Re: Re: Perpetuating the "IROC-Z" stereo type...
Originally posted by TPI
cause this 21 year old right aint buying it
cause this 21 year old right aint buying it
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 0
From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by TPI
... cause this 21 year old right aint buying it
... cause this 21 year old right aint buying it
As for the stereotypes, they were not created by us, however, the opinions and comments you disgorge perpetuate the fallacy of those upon us all. Especially the ignorance…
Originally posted by TPI
...Them Fords have nothing on a Z28,IROC,T/A etc etc ..
Ive been in fbodies and driven in fbodies on the street
for awhile
I ran with a 93 .. even the new ones
...Them Fords have nothing on a Z28,IROC,T/A etc etc ..
Ive been in fbodies and driven in fbodies on the street
for awhile
I ran with a 93 .. even the new ones
Originally posted by TPI
…I coulda lit up a smoke, shifted into 1st and
begone by the time I had to worry about him pulling
on me.
…I coulda lit up a smoke, shifted into 1st and
begone by the time I had to worry about him pulling
on me.
Originally posted by TPI
and all that talk about not being able to get
power out of TPI motor and wipe my as*
Im doing jus fine ..
.... and Friends that had older models could only
gawk as I pulled past them with a grin and a Marlboro
in my mouth
and all that talk about not being able to get
power out of TPI motor and wipe my as*
Im doing jus fine ..
.... and Friends that had older models could only
gawk as I pulled past them with a grin and a Marlboro
in my mouth
Oh, and what does wiping you’re as* have to do with anything?
Thank you very much for toasting this thread. It was a more or less open discussion until you got all touchy. Go troll elswhere and stop posting in ignorance. That is all, carry on.
Supreme Member

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,214
Likes: 3
From: Norwich, CT
Car: '89 Trans AM/'88 GTA
Engine: (2) Tuned Port L98's
Ok fellas ..
Maybe I was a bit wrong with all the smart as*
responses on stereotypes
and I apoligize..
It frustrates me sometimes because ..not everyone
who owns an fbod lives the lifestyle.
I dont wanna take too much of a strong stand on this
stupid subject .. its really not worth it ..people are gunna
think what they want about the fbod .. ah well ..
As for questioning my knowledge and my ability
to work on these cars or any others
Is just plain out unprofessional on your part.
and to judge me by age is just plain out stupid.
So if your ever around my neighborhood ..
Stop by to see what this 21 yr old has got.
(I aint just packing a TPI T/A)
Im not here to make enemies .. I didnt start the thread
that just puts down our cars ..
and so what .. I smoke, I thought the coment was
just to be funny .. Instead all this bullshi*
If anything, I was trying to relate to ya guys.
Im young .. I enjoy stupid stuf like beer and cigs
you cant blame me for tryin' to relate with yall
Im sorry if I sounded "Trailer Trash"
I was jus tryin' to have alil laugh
(sorry for havin' fun)
again .. just becuase I was young in the 80s .. doesnt
mean I dont know anything.
I actually cant believe that, I mean WTF
That is all, Carry on (lmao)
Maybe I was a bit wrong with all the smart as*
responses on stereotypes
and I apoligize..
It frustrates me sometimes because ..not everyone
who owns an fbod lives the lifestyle.
I dont wanna take too much of a strong stand on this
stupid subject .. its really not worth it ..people are gunna
think what they want about the fbod .. ah well ..
As for questioning my knowledge and my ability
to work on these cars or any others
Is just plain out unprofessional on your part.
and to judge me by age is just plain out stupid.
So if your ever around my neighborhood ..
Stop by to see what this 21 yr old has got.
(I aint just packing a TPI T/A)
Im not here to make enemies .. I didnt start the thread
that just puts down our cars ..
and so what .. I smoke, I thought the coment was
just to be funny .. Instead all this bullshi*
If anything, I was trying to relate to ya guys.
Im young .. I enjoy stupid stuf like beer and cigs
you cant blame me for tryin' to relate with yall
Im sorry if I sounded "Trailer Trash"
I was jus tryin' to have alil laugh
(sorry for havin' fun)
again .. just becuase I was young in the 80s .. doesnt
mean I dont know anything.
I actually cant believe that, I mean WTF
That is all, Carry on (lmao)
Last edited by TPI; Sep 15, 2004 at 08:08 PM.
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 0
From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by TPI
...again .. just becuase I was young in the 80s .. doesnt
mean I dont know anything. ...
...again .. just becuase I was young in the 80s .. doesnt
mean I dont know anything. ...
Originally posted by RB83L69
... There's people on this board that have been wrenching for a living in some cases, or building cars as a hobby in others, since before your daddy was even a gleam in his daddy's eye. One thing you will find as you grow older (assuming the Lord grants you the continued oppoortunity to do so) is that as every single day goes by, you'll have an opportuinty to learn things.
{my break}
You know more today about this stuff than you did at the same time last year, I would assume; is there any reason to assume that you've reached some pinnacle of perfection as of right now, and the process has ceased? So what makes you think it has stopped for all the rest of us?
{my break}
Think about what you've learned in the last year, or 2 years, or 6 years; think about how much more you can learn in the next 2, or 6, or 25, or 40 years; then think about how much somebody that's been doing this for that length of time might know that you haven't even glimpsed the possibility of just yet. Every day, you get a little more experience, a little more wisdom, and (hopefully) a little more humility; because you will realize as you come to have more and more knowledge, that there's still more to be learned....
... There's people on this board that have been wrenching for a living in some cases, or building cars as a hobby in others, since before your daddy was even a gleam in his daddy's eye. One thing you will find as you grow older (assuming the Lord grants you the continued oppoortunity to do so) is that as every single day goes by, you'll have an opportuinty to learn things.
{my break}
You know more today about this stuff than you did at the same time last year, I would assume; is there any reason to assume that you've reached some pinnacle of perfection as of right now, and the process has ceased? So what makes you think it has stopped for all the rest of us?
{my break}
Think about what you've learned in the last year, or 2 years, or 6 years; think about how much more you can learn in the next 2, or 6, or 25, or 40 years; then think about how much somebody that's been doing this for that length of time might know that you haven't even glimpsed the possibility of just yet. Every day, you get a little more experience, a little more wisdom, and (hopefully) a little more humility; because you will realize as you come to have more and more knowledge, that there's still more to be learned....
Hope that clears some up. While I agree with what is said above, one cannot discredit someone because of thier age. I have met people 15 years older than me, that I wouldnt let change my oil. And I have also met people 5 years younger than me, that can dance circles in a shop around me. I've been turning the wrench since I was old enough to sit in my uncles shop. I knew more about cars and engines when I turned 16 than most people that were older than me. But, of course, this isnt the case for everyone.
When thegeneral (a board member for those that dont know him) and I were younger our father used to have a sign hanging up on the living room closet door it said (sorry about the caps, but thats how it was)
ATTENTION ALL TEENAGERS!
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT! YOU MUST LEAVE HOME NOW
AND FIND A JOB. GO OUT AND CONQUER THE WORLD,
WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!
I used to laugh at it, but as I grew older, and wiser I hope, I started realizing that in an intelligent person age brings wisdom. Not because a number makes you magically smarter, but because if you open yourself to learning, you will. I guess the point that I am trying to make is if you think you know it all, then you really dont know sh*t. Sorry about the length guys.
When thegeneral (a board member for those that dont know him) and I were younger our father used to have a sign hanging up on the living room closet door it said (sorry about the caps, but thats how it was)
ATTENTION ALL TEENAGERS!
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT! YOU MUST LEAVE HOME NOW
AND FIND A JOB. GO OUT AND CONQUER THE WORLD,
WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!
I used to laugh at it, but as I grew older, and wiser I hope, I started realizing that in an intelligent person age brings wisdom. Not because a number makes you magically smarter, but because if you open yourself to learning, you will. I guess the point that I am trying to make is if you think you know it all, then you really dont know sh*t. Sorry about the length guys.
Supreme Member
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 3,187
Likes: 0
From: E.B.F. TN
Car: Tree Huggers
Engine: Do Not
Transmission: Appreciate Me.
Originally posted by ljnowell
...
ATTENTION ALL TEENAGERS!
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT! YOU MUST LEAVE HOME NOW
AND FIND A JOB. GO OUT AND CONQUER THE WORLD,
WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!
...
...
ATTENTION ALL TEENAGERS!
NOW IS THE TIME TO ACT! YOU MUST LEAVE HOME NOW
AND FIND A JOB. GO OUT AND CONQUER THE WORLD,
WHILE YOU STILL KNOW EVERYTHING!
...
I've got to make me one of those damn things!! I'll have my sons look you up when they figure it out.
Supreme Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,770
Likes: 1
From: Pacific Northwest
Car: '85 IROC
Engine: LB9
Transmission: 700 R4
Speaking of learning new things, and keeping things thirdgen relveant, but sort of off topic.
I just found out something today that put the valve train geometry issue into a whole new perspective.
I should have figured it out long ago, but never actually took the time to sit down and think about it, til this afternoon.
Now I finally feel competent with that, instead of like before, when I was just doing my best to follow the instructions but not really knowing why.
Somebody bake me a cake!
I just found out something today that put the valve train geometry issue into a whole new perspective.
I should have figured it out long ago, but never actually took the time to sit down and think about it, til this afternoon.
Now I finally feel competent with that, instead of like before, when I was just doing my best to follow the instructions but not really knowing why.
Somebody bake me a cake!
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