I have been driving my '97 Crown Vic and I love how it sounds in third gear at 90mph. I had an Integra GS-R before that and it was fun spinning it up to its redline. I just bought an '85 Camaro to play with. It has a 305 and a T-5. If I try and duplicate the sounds and speed of my Crown Vic makes I will be breaking something fast! So this is what I want:

7000 redline
350 ft-lbs of torque between 2500rpm and 6000rpm
emissions legal (hoses on exhaust, rolling on a wheel dyno, closed hood)
50k miles before rebuild
95dBa on drive by

There seem to be as many different ways to achieve this as there are people driving these cars. I would like to have a hand in the assembly my self if possible. I would also like to have the big parts capable of a 50% increase in torque in the same rev range after I get a 6-speed. I don't want to have to rebuild the whole darn thing later, just maybe a cam and a chip or something like that.

I plan on using the car daily during the summer on a 35 mile one way commute, highway trips, and for taking driver's ed courses at racetracks (Gingerman, Blackhawk Farms, Road America, etc.)

I understand that the 305 won't do it. But there are entirely too many ways to do a 350, and I am not sure which ones will pass the sniffer and rev.

I plan to keep the car for a few yearsafter I build it so the Money has to be spread out over some time. Other than that I can do whatever is appropriate.

Help is appreciated,
Jason

 

You're asking quite a bit, I think.
But I like the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap mnflds.
They are rated 1500-6000.
I talked to comp cams and they selected a cam for me (XE268H)
I'll be using Vortec L31 heads, and a holley 670cfm TBI

right now I've got Hooker 2055s and supercomp catback, no cat, on the stock L03

 

Is this car using a carb? Or EFI?

 

so let me get this straight, you want a 50% incread over 350lbs/ft that is about 525lb/ft of torque, and you want it all there between 2500 and 7k ????

side note: what is everyones fascination with spinning up to 7k?

ok, engine asside, have you thought about all the other aspects of having a car that makes that much torque over that broad of a range.... obviosly since you mentioned a 6speed, you have at least considered a tranny.... what about rear end? chassis improvments. how are you going to hook up the power, exiting a tight corner on a road course in 2nd gear, with that much power is going to be an excersise in self control.

525lbs/ft of torque at 7krpm is about 765hp that is alot of car. and i doubt with the cam/intake needed to produce that HP number on a 350, would would make that power at 2500 rpm. at least not NA. really if you are looking for a 700+ hp motor, that might have a shot at passing emmisions, i would be thinking supercharger. and a forged bottom end, it would have to be well balanced to spin to 7k regularly and live as long as you are hoping.

 

I realize that this isn't the garden variety build-up question. It is common to make a car that has high peak torque or horsepower at a certain engne range. But what I've been seeing in the new cars is a shift towards identifying the power range of the car in terms of a rev range. Since I don't know the operating range I will use I picked what I am familiar with.

5500 rpm seems ok for drag strips that are a 1320 feet. But what about Grattan Raceway? Their front straight is 3200 feet. That 's a long time on the gas coming out of a turn.

I plan to use the car on the street. There are many cars with 350 lb-ft at 1800 rpm, but they don't rev very high. Unless you have the ability to specific gear and rear end ratios for each events you are better advised to make a flexible engine and work with the trans ratios available. A large powerband is always more flexible than a small powerband.

I know I want an overdrive of .80 and a rear of about 3.4x or 3.5x. That puts me over 6000rpm at 90 in third. I can do 90 in third in my Crown Vic and that is a lot of fun. More power gets me there faster. With a 4th and 5th cog afterwards I can really move when I have a place to do it. At 70 in 5th I'm at 2500 or so. I can nail the gas or shift. The car becomes flexible then.

If Mercedes Benz can come out with cars that have over 500 lb-ft of torque from 2650 to 4500 rpm surely a small block can do less otrque over a larger range, right?

 

your talking abotua 120k AMG car. do the same thing they do.

Multi-valve heads. $5k http://www.araoengineering.com
Supercharger. $3k+ http://www.procharger.com

and you have .2L more displacement. also remeber the bottome end build up for this will probably be $3k+

thats $11k already, toss in another $1k for an intake. and we haven't even gotten into the computer, figure genvii stuff ($2K+), plus tranny ($2k), plus a rear end ($2k). suspension chassis mods (another $2k+)

you do the math.

 

I guess I'll chime in with my 2 cents here.

First off, 7k is high for a SBC. Everything would need to be balanced/blueprinted and you're going to need a lightweight valvetrain (shaft rockers, titatium retainers, undercut heavy duty stainless valves, fluidampr, etc.). That's going to cost a lot of money, plus durability will be an issue.

If you're putting out a bunch of power, I'd look into a built 4l60e tranny if you want an auto, or a Tremec TKO if you want a manual. The TKO will handle 550 tq (however they last behind 8 second motors if they're treated right), I'm not sure what the limits of the 4l60e is though, but I would imagine 600 or so since from my understanding it's a th400 with an overdrive (oversimplification i'm sure).

Mercedes can put out that much power because they use a lot of technology and I would imagine those motors have more displacement than a 350 to make that much power (I don't know much about mercedes so that's strictly a guess).

Well that's my opinion at least.

Edit: With a blower, .2L (12ci?) more displacement and multivalve heads that makes it much easier to get 500+ ft lbs tq...

 

The 50% increase doesn't have to be over the same range. I would probably settle for a peak increase in that case.

So what is realistic? They have crate engines at $8k that supposed have 550 lb-ft of torque. The magazines claim the engines can pull even more n the dyno. I may be showing some naivete, but there's gotta be a happy medium.

I figure that I will be spending upwards of $20k. But consider my options:

Subaru WRX STI: $30k that just has 300hp and 250 lb-ft
Corvette: $40k +

And the vette won't even hold my boys in the back.

I bought the Camaro for $1500. A fast street car that can comfortably handle race tracks is the whole point of the hot rod industry. Speed costs right? All I'm asking is how much.

Don't Mustangs wind up to 7k?

Jason

 

the problem is not the 7k.

the problem is making power at 7k, and making power at 2k in the same engine at the same time.

not sure what it would do, but maybe a pro-charged LS1/t56 combo :shrugs: