I can't figure out how the timing gears go on my 305. The chilton's book shows the dowell on the cam sprocket being at the 9 o'clock position but that puts the dot on my cloyes timing chain at 12 o'clock, which is not directly across from the dot on the the crank sprocket. All I keep hearing is "dot to dot" but that doesn't seem to add up with this timing set. Besides, when I shut the car down before the teardown, it was no where near dot to dot and it ran, although crappy because several teeth were missing.

 

look on the back side of the cloyes box, it should have pics and instructions. as far as i can remember it's always been the crank gear dot at 12:00 and the cam gear dot at 6:00, or dot to dot.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd

 

Yep, that's the easiest way to make sure the dots are lined up.

Just remember thought, that in that position, the #1 piston is NOT at Top Dead Center on the compression stroke; #6 is.

So before you drop in the distributor - if you removed it - make sure you locate #1 at TDC on the compression stroke.

Hope this helps.

Jake



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1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9

 

If they're not lined up, then you need to turn things until they are. Bump the motor with the starter or otherwise turn the crank unitl its dot is straight up; then put the new sprocket on the cam, and use 2 of the bolts to turn it until the dots line up. Then take it back off and put teh chain on. Soak the chain in motor oil or ATF before yo put it on.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

Sounds like I did it all right but it still won't start. I had to rotate the cam quite a ways to get the dot at 6 o'clock,right across from the crank dot. I just got done pulling the distributor hoping maybe it was off. I got #1 to TDC, dropped the distributor back in pointing to #1 on the cap but it still won't start. I may have to do the whole thing over again,hopefully won't take me two days this time. How do I start from scratch if it's all screwed up? What piston do I want at TDC on compression stroke(ie.holding my finger over the hole)?

 

I'm kinda lost about #1 TDC now. What I did was stuff the hole on #1 with a rag, bumped the engine and when it blew the rag out, I assumed this is TDC compression stroke. Then I pulled the distributor and dropped it back in with the rotor pointing to the #1 tower on the cap. Could I be 180 degrees off?

 

With the dots lined up, you're probably at #6 firing. Your method of determining #1 firing is correct: as you turn the engine, when compression occurs on the #1 cylinder, the next time that piston is all the way to the top, that's #1 firing more or less.

The #1 tower ont eh distributor should be the one just to the driver's side of straight ahead. You may have to turn the oil pump drive rod with a large screwdriver or something to get it to line up with the distributor.

Next time you change the timing chain, don't pull the distributor out. It's unnecessary. Then you won't have any trouble getting it to run the first time you try to start it. As long as the distributor retains its correct relationship to the cam (which it has to if it stays in) and the cam is restored to the correct relation to the crank (timing marks aligned) the motor will run.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

Thanks for all the help. I didn't originally pull the distributor. Only tried that as a last resort after everything was back together and wouldn't start. Please one last question, " Is it possible that when I lined the dots up on the crank and cam, I was on the wrong stroke somehow? That's my main fear, I have no doubt they were in line but maybe the cam or crank was off 360 degrees. Is that possible? Thanks again.

 

Definitely a possibility. On those timing sets, when the dots are together, it's #6 firing which is exactly one full crank revolution and ½ of a full cam revolution from #1 firing. In each case, the pistons are in the same spot; the only difference is what the valves are doing at that moment. To put it another way, you could line the motor up perfectly with, say, the dots together and the dist installed properly (in ohase with the cam); then take the chain off, turn the cam 180° while the crank sits still, and then put the chain back on; or leave the crank still and spin the crank 360°; and the engine will run exactly the same. It won't know the difference.

Were you able to get it back going again? I'd hate to think somebody couldn't enjoy Christmas because he was struggling with that sort of crap.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."

 

I've been fighting with this thing for 3 days now. It won't start and I have a feeling that the cam and crank are off stroke it that's possible. Also, i'm concerned about the bottom of the timing cover, is it supposed to rest inside the oil pan(ie the rubber seal can't be seen) or is does it kinda press against the oil pan(ie you can still see the rubber seal. I didn't mess with the oil pan and the way I have it now. the rubber seal is sandwiched between the bottom of the cover and the lip of the oil pan.

 

When you have the gears dot to dot you are 180 deg. from TDC #1.

If you put both gears so the dots are at 12 o clock you are at TDC for #1.

Either way is correct. 12 and 12 or 6 and 12.

The only thing that matters is that when you bump the engine so #1 pushes air, keep rotating until you get to the timing marks at TDC.

Drop the dist facing #1 and you are good to go.

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ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

Thanks. I think with your help and me thinking I know what I did wrong. I put #1 at TDC and screwed up when I spun the cam around to line up the dots, which should have been #6 at TDC. I should have had #6 at TDC when I lined up the dots. In essence, I have the #1 piston in the firing position with the ignition trying to fire at #6. Does this sound right??

 

If you have the dots lined up (12 crank to 6 cam) and then you need to rotate the engine one more revolution to drop the dist.

Otherwise you are 180 out.

Good luck

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ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R

GO #3

 

Thanks alot guys, you've been a big help and your response time was great. Now when the weather clears up I can try it again.

 

Thanks again, got her running again last night, rotated the cam gear 180 degrees (which I don't think makes a difference because that changes the valve position)put her on #1 tdc and dropped the distributor.Just to be safe, changed the plugs. She fired right up. No leaks from the oil pan/Timing cover connection either. That Milodon High Volume water pump sure made a difference in the coolant flow too.