How hard is it to remove heads? Im already down to them but I wasnt planning on taking them off.. They dont leak and never have but one I remove them will they start leaking? Whats under them that I have to worry about? when and if I take them off will a bunch of part coming falling out?..

I know, stupid question but hey!....

 

Ummmmmm, I wouldn't even consider removing the heads if there's no problem with them. You could just stick yourself with a hot poker for fun instead. And if you did remove them, you'd have to buy new head gaskets to reinstall them to take care of any of those pesky leaks you're worried about. You also have to remove your exhaust manifolds and 17 bolts hold down each head that you have to re-torque in sequence to roughly 70 ft. lbs. I guess, in short, what I'm trying to tell you is I wouldn't remove cylinder heads unless there was a problem with them.

 

Only concern is the pushrods, just loosen the rocker arms enough to rotate them and pull the pushrods out...the rest of what you see will come out as a unit...it's heavy too about 50lbs, so plan ahead when lifting it out (fender covers come to mind quickly).

 

if there isn't a problem why would you want to remove them? you don't go in for open heart operation do you just because you don't have anything else to do do you?

 

I don't mean to sound rude, but if you have to ask how hard it is, then you shouldn't do it. Like they all said, just leave them alone until there is a problem or you decide to do an upgrade.

I am not trying to be rude or anything, just don't want to see you make a big mess of your engine.

BTW, its not hard, just time consuming and requires some finesse to reinstall properly...

 

i wont go into WHY.. just the how.




removal:


take off the exhaust manifold and the intake.. loosen the rockers, and remove the pushrods, you dont have to take the rocker arms off, just loosen them enough to get at the pushrod. im assuming the coolent is drained...

unbolt the heads...
lift them off... if its a PITA to come loose, you can pry a lil on a non sealing surface.. like under the intake ports.


install:

clean the block surface and head mating surface...
lay your head gasket down on teh block.. there are dowel pins on the block, so it will stay put.
set the head down in place.
put your sealent on the bolts and snug them all hand tight... i usually use a speed wrench if theres room.. quick and easy, but you arnt trying to tighten em.. just start em.

now looking into your book (pretty much all the repair books have it) follow the TQ sequance and tighten the bolts in order....... first time, tighten to 1/3 of the total amount... do it a 2nd time in order to 2/3rds the amount... and the third time, do it to the full amount. the amount is what the BOLT maker says... so if you're running ARP bolts, do what ARP says.. if you're running GM bolts, do what the GM service manual says, ect...
head bolts are torque to yeld.. while some backyard techs would argue the issue, its smart to use NEW bolts.




thats the how.
not that hard at all... just bolt it on.



btw this is the first real mod i did in highschool to my car... i needed new valve seals and pulled the heads... seems kinda scary at first.. but eventually you learn.. theres nothing to it but to do it.. its just a block of metal carefully bolted onto another block of metal.. no magic envolved.. jsut be careful to make sure they seal right

 

some of you guys make removing heads sound like pulling teeth! the only thing that was a bitch was forgetting to unbolt a ground strap with 50 lbs of iron in your out stretched arms. if you are rebuilding the motor, might as well replace old head gaskets with new ones and take some time to clean out the carbon deposits and junk in your heads, then paint them up nicely so they look better. possibly replace crummy o-ring seals with umbrella seals. new head gaskets and head bolts are a must. give yourself a day to do remove and reinstall them. make sure nothing falls in the cylinders or coolant passages. when you reinstall them, look the guide stud on the block for the head. it's really not so bad especially if you have already torn the motor apart. I put new aftermarket heads on myself and they are great!

 

i knew i forgot somthing....you said it... lol...

dont forget the ground straps and the accessories.. anythign bolted to the ends of the heads...

and when they're off is a GREAT time to replace the valve seals.... a machine shop will probly charge around $100 for new seals and to redo the valves.....




whats bad is if you break a headbolt..... i had a feeling that the TQ wrench i was using was "off"... but i used it anyway.. sure enough, on the farthest back bolt, the short one... on the drivers side, its snapped.. in the block... ugh.
i ended up having to tilt the whole motor some so i could fit a drill in there, use the head as a "guide" for the big bit, cut into the bolt until it had a nice taper to center, then drill and easy out... UGH.

turned a 2 hour long job into 2 days.... ugh.



of course. thats the WORSE case... its not that hard. :lala:



if you asked me what the hardest part is IMO... it would be leaning over the car at arms reach and lifting a head... they're a lil heavy to be holding out at arms length.

 

Uhh, did you naysayers read his entire post?

All he asked for "When and if" he did.

 

The reason Im thinking about taking them off is because Ive been in the process of putting in an LT1 cam i and Im waiting on my headers to get back from coating. Ive already starting grinding on my intake,"which I have no clue what to grind" so I was thinking I might as well go the whole way and port the heads too.

Once again I wouldnt know what to port on the heads. I looked at them while on the motor and it looks like there is alot to port out of a head.

Im probably going to get in touch with Dan Burke and get him the port the stuff...I would rather pay someone to port it for me than me screw them all up...

know what I mean?

If I got the LT1 cam, ported plenum, ported intake, ported heads, headers, I should get me some good HP...right?

 

yes... and you could use a thinner headgasket and raise the compression a tad..

sure it will help some.. since you're paying someone to do it, im not sure its worth the money they charge... if hes pricey id pass, if hes cheap or reasonable, then go for it..

athough (and this is how you learn things) since you said you ported the the intake stuff, im going to assume you have the tools needed...
i would find some used 305 heads somewhere else... try to port thoes yourself and if you do a good job, use them, if you fubar one, you're not in trouble..

theres a lil more too it... the first place i would ask when looking for heads is your local machine shop.. tell him what you want to do... the heads dont have to be the same castings as you have now, but be SURE that the valves will fit the 305s tiny bore. ALOT of heads out there wont fit.

once you have your basic castings, port them out... (i'll post a link to some basic instructions in a sec)
then have the valve seats ground, put new valve springs in, and new valve seals.
you may reuse the valves that are in your 305... but thats a kind of cash saving corner cutting... if you can afford it, get new valves to..
im assuming you have new valvesprings for the LT1 cam anyway.. if you dont, you need to get some.

add up all the costs for this before you start... it can get pricy quick.. but its a great thing to learn... even if you mess up this time, this probly wont be your only motor so next time you do it, you know a lil more

if you want to pratice more first, you can ask your local machine shop for some junk heads.. they usually have a few hanging around that they'll give for free.... try porting thoes...

im not at my PC... so let me search for that link...

 

lol, that was quick..

http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.htm




and i just remembered, i have it in my webspace in PDF format too:

http://josh.swoca.net/board/mrdude/diyport.pdf

 

Follow this ongoing thread, FBird 88 is has really done some nice pic modding to show what/how to do your heads...the 416's are about the same as your 081's.

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=215563

As far as the intake is concerned, do it yourself, it's reeeeeeealy easy (did I mention how easy it is?) and goes quickly since it's Aluminum.

For the cost of sending out your intake, and having it ported, you're well on your way to a quality diegrinder and the bits you need to port with. Then, once you've gotten the han of running it a bit on your intake, you can spend a few more bucks for some quality bits for castiron and do your heads.

Don't be intimidated by doing it yourself, as long as you don't get carried away and grind through anything. You'll notice in the link I posted, there's refernce to "Vaders Templates", he has them posted somewhere with size, so you almost can't go wrong.

 

also, a tip for saving your fingers, pick up the heads using the INTAKE ports and pull towards you. better to get greasy than have 50 lbs of iron crush your fingers somewhere in the engine bay or anywhere else. SPEAKING FROM EXPERIENCE

 

ok i have to ask.. how DID you try to pick them up?

 

I am not trying to be a jerk, but who ever was a "naysayer". I know myself said if there is nothing wrong don't fix it. Not in the exact words. The same goes for buying a yacht. If you have to ask, you can't afford it.

With cylinder heads, if you have to ask how, then don't do it. When the time comes to do it for repair or for more performance, then search around, I bet it has been done before.

I am not trying to be nasty, but I don't want to be thought of as a negative person here at TGO.

And I agree with those that feel that cylinder heads can be a very helpful improvement...

 

diffrent schools of thought.


i go... if you never ask how, you'll never learn to do it.


athough you COULD learn the hard way i suppose.... but i find its usually better to ask.



like i said before... there no magic envolved.. just knowledge and practice..

to know what to do, you have to ask.
to know how to do it, you have to practice

 

I have learned everything the hard way. I ignored what those with knowlegde told me. I just don't want to see poeple follow in that path. But you will learn a lot...

 

here. pics are crappy but you'll get it.

http://www.fl-thirdgen.org/mrr23/mrr23-7.html

 

Wishmaster,
I don't want to convince you not to do this, but I can tell you from experience that you are in for a LOT of work if you port your heads yourself. I spent 40 hours on mine and about 15 on my TPI intake. I had all the equipment too. I can also tell you that it is VERY rewarding to feel the new found power when you are done. Make sure to have the heads clean when you get finished porting, there's a bunch of places for metal and sand to hide in a head.

Good luck,
Charlie

 

yea, it does take awhile... esp if you're being careful doing this for the first time...

first time i did it, it took me a whole month of doing it in my spare time....

 

first attempt was lift them up by the exhaust ports and pull rofl. I forgot how heavy 50 pounds was when you have to lift with your wrists instead of your arms more or less.

 

Well, after reading thru some of the links you guys posted, Ive decided to not even screw around with my heads. For one I dont have the stuff to do it with and it does look like alot to do not knowing what to do.

I am going to do my intake since Ive grinded on it playing around with a dremal, so that I atleast have to finish, and if it smacks into a 90* wall then so be it, Im sure it will still be the same or beter than what it was at first. All I did was start on a cam replacement and it has turned into a nightmare! I just want to get this car back on the road. What I have already acomplished will for sure make it better/faster than what it was to start with.
There was nothing worng with the car when I started but no I have a disasembled motor that I want assembled....LOL...

 

isnt asking how you learn? I dont think anyone on here was born with the knowledge of how to pull and install heads . I had to ask this question myself (check the v6 forum out) BLOWN HEAD GASKETS SUCK! But with the help of some people on here i know i can do it. And look at the price diff, for a mechanic to do JUST the head gasket=600, for me to replace the head gasket,water pump, and timing chain, with new head bolts and all the crap ill need=100. Sure its alot of work but i know ill take the time and do it right.

 

Wishmaster,
You can always get a new base for your tpi manifold if you have taken too much off yours. They are pretty cheap and you could match it to the heads. I think $50-$75 will get you one.
Just a suggestion,
Charlie

 

wishmaster it's really easy. everyone has crushed a finger or gotten a scrape working on anything that requires use of tools. it's a few bolts and some strength to remove heads. everything seats in place just fine when you put them back on, and the bolt tightening sequence is available everywhere and very easy. you might as well replace the gaskets now, murphy law says as soon as you get that car back together. a head gasket will blow, just to **** you off and you'll have to do it anyways.

 

I dont have a problem with removing the heads, thats no big deal, taking something apart is one of the easiest thing to do.....


I havent grinded on the intake much at all just a little so Im ok there. The only reason I was wanting to remove the heads was to port them and give myself more power. I figured since I have it all the way down to that point anyways I might as well.

BUT! I have no clue what to port or even how to port and dont want to make a bigger nightmare out of this than I have already done. SO, i dont think taking the head porting project would be good cuase I just have a way with screwing things up and damn sure dont want to end up spending money on new heads that I dont need. Heres a picture of the point Im at right now, just waiting for my headers to get back from caoting since alot of the stuff ties into the drivers side header. THe car has been sitting this way since August. My luck the damn thing is probably going to not fire or catch on fire when I do get it all back together,,,,,LOL..

 

lol, I wouldn't port heads myself, but there are professionals that can do it for a reasonable fee! good luck with everything

 

I didn't realize until later on in the thread that your interest in removing the heads had to do with porting them. Doing your own porting is really quite easy if you order the standard abrasives deluxe porting kit and pick up a $20 die grinder from harbor freight. Of course you'll need access to an air compressor too. They have an article on their website(I think it's already been posted somewhere in this thread) that makes it easy for the do-it-yourselfer to understand. I ported my L98 heads using that article and the kit, and they turned out very nice. The thing is, it looks like you're wanting to just get the motor back together and running again soon, and if you decide to port the heads, it does eat up a lot of spare time doing the port work, like a lot of guys on this thread have pointed out. There would also be some more expenses involved if I went that route, because if I go to the trouble to pull a set of heads off, there's no way I wouldn't at least have a valve job done and replace the valve seals while you have the chance to do so. Since you'd be taking them to the machine shop anyways, it'd also be a prime time to have screw in studs installed too, and maybe a new set of springs that'll work good with your new cam. I guess the point I'm getting to is that none of this is very hard or complicated to do, it just adds up to more time and money on your part.