Ok,
I started the car up and it started up but ran like poop cause the timing wasnt set and wouldnt stay idling...after figuring out that I had the timing light hooked up to the #7 wire and couldnt find the mark I moved it to #1 and was able to set timing......I set it to 8*

My SES light never came on but does work...so when I checked for codes I got 42 and 44 but after setting everything I no longer get any codes I just get the 1...2...blinks..why would I get those codes to begin with?

Then I set the IAC but still need to set it alittle higher than 450rpm cause when I turn it off and remove the paper clip ...it still idles low.....can I set it higher?

then when I set the TPS...I set it to .55 and when I open up the throttle I only get as high as 3.70......shouldnt I be at 4.00 or more?..it worked fine before I started the capper...

I checked my fuel pressure with vaccum unpluged and set it to 45 but when I turn the key it goes to 45 then slowly starts dropping losing pressure.......is it suppose to do that?

When ever I crank the car its hard to turn over...like theres to much compression or somthing.....could my belts be to tight...they dont feel it......the battery shows a charge on the dash but I always have to put it on the charger to get enough juice to start it and it seems hard to start....could my battery not be good anymore from sitting so long?...I got a Summit timing chain but when I go to start it, it sounds like Im starting a blower motor...dont know how to explain it.....and its not the starter...


I cant really tell whats going on with the motor cause the damn thing is so loud with open headers but there is a hisssssss coming from the drivers side....like a vaccum leak or somthing but there is no vaccum lines there......theres a knock or rattle but more of a knock coming from somewhere and I cant tell if its the half y-pipe that I got attached......its not a loud knock but there is one there.

When I was under the car looking for the knock sound my eyes burnt like crazy!.....from the fuel...why?

My passenger fan only came on when I was setting the IAC.....when I used the paper clip...but never came on while I had the car idling....shouldnt it have come on at some point? I did install a 160 stat and the fan switch to go with that....is it because my prom is still set for the stock switch and stat? I think the temp got up to just before 220...between the 220 mark and the one before that.

I removed all the EGR stuff but never got that code to show.


can anyone shed some light as to what going on with my problems?

 

Whew... lota questions in one post

Ok,

My SES light never came on but does work...so when I checked for codes I got 42 and 44 but after setting everything I no longer get any codes I just get the 1...2...blinks..why would I get those codes to begin with?



Thats code 12, for no reference pulse. Under mose circumstances it means nothing



Then I set the IAC but still need to set it alittle higher than 450rpm cause when I turn it off and remove the paper clip ...it still idles low.....can I set it higher?



If you have the ability to data log, you can turn up the base idle untill you have around 17-20 counts. Other then that youll have to go in and edit the calibration in the ecm to get a higher idle. Proper method is to put the paper clip in with the key in the on postition, engine off, and then unplug the IAC. Remove paper clip and start the motor and set the idle to the desired idle speed.



then when I set the TPS...I set it to .55 and when I open up the throttle I only get as high as 3.70......shouldnt I be at 4.00 or more?..it worked fine before I started the capper...

is the throttle opening all the way up? Take it off and rotate it by and and see how high it goes.



I checked my fuel pressure with vaccum unpluged and set it to 45 but when I turn the key it goes to 45 then slowly starts dropping losing pressure.......is it suppose to do that?



No, not really, could be leaking injectors or a fuel pump that allows the pressure to bleed down.


When ever I crank the car its hard to turn over...like theres to much compression or somthing.....could my belts be to tight...they dont feel it......the battery shows a charge on the dash but I always have to put it on the charger to get enough juice to start it and it seems hard to start....could my battery not be good anymore from sitting so long?...I got a Summit timing chain but when I go to start it, it sounds like Im starting a blower motor...dont know how to explain it.....and its not the starter...


Could be too much timing thats straining the hell out of the starter. Could also be a bad ground. I ahd a loose ground strap and the starter sounded really funky


When I was under the car looking for the knock sound my eyes burnt like crazy!.....from the fuel...why?


Its running rich, either from the tune (timing, ecm calibration, etc.) or low vacuum. Even without a cat, a properly running efi motor's exaust will have little odor to it and wont burn your eyes. Dont put a cat behind it untill you solve that problem


My passenger fan only came on when I was setting the IAC.....when I used the paper clip...but never came on while I had the car idling....shouldnt it have come on at some point? I did install a 160 stat and the fan switch to go with that....is it because my prom is still set for the stock switch and stat? I think the temp got up to just before 220...between the 220 mark and the one before that.


Yes... Youll have to either get another prom with it set lower or buy prom burning equipment, which is always a good investment.


I removed all the EGR stuff but never got that code to show.


wont see a code untill the car is above a certain speed and at constant throttle load. The ecm will perform the test and then set a code if it doesnt see the desired results.

 

When the starter cranks the engine, does it make a loud whining noise? If it does, then you may want to check the gap between the pinion and the flywheel because it is probably too small. If you go to auto parts stores' websites and look for a starter for your engine, the sites (especially Autozone.com) will usually have a specific gap listed for one or two of their in-house remanned units. At Autozone.com, look for either a DuraLast or DL Gold listing for your engine-for my V6 the recommended gap was 1/8" in between the center shaft of the starter and the flywheel teeth.

 

removed to save space on thread!

 

same

 

something else I remembered.........you know how when you first crank a car up it revs up high and then when it finally reaches a certain temp the revs kick back down? well I dont remember my car doing that...when i fire it up it stays at a constant rev...never higher never lower....

is this because of the stock chip thats in it...and has to do with the stat and fan switch I have?...........


Im remembering stuff as it comes to mind......

also, I should have the exhaust finished up before continuing so atleast I can hear whats going on with the motor....

 

Even on a hot restart the engine RPMs will start higher and slowly decrement to the target idle RPM. That's all controlled by the IAC, which is driven by the ECM. Sounds like you may have some idle air issues. The low WOT TPS reading is another indication.

 

You're supposed to remove the paperclip after disconnecting the IAC and BEFORE starting the car, that may be some of your problem.

 

So you think I may need to replace my IAC sensor? When I took it out I cleaned it all up...could that be a problem? so

So what yur saying is the 2 go together,,,if the IAC in not working correctly then the TPS will not show the correct bolts?

 

I think what hes saying is that maybe the min air adjustment is off so thats why the tps isnt reading full range. You may have it open too far and when you zero out the tps it wont sweep through its full travel when the throttle is opened up.

 

Ive noticed that I have the throttle screw in alot further than what is was before I started this project...Ive had to screw it in alot just to keep the car idle so it gets some gas...if I dont screw it in the car will die.

whats that tell you TPI machanics? ........my timing is set to 8*.......

Sound I replace the IAC and the TPS sensors?...would that have anythign to do with the idle and having a hard time keeping it to idle?

thanks guys for all your help...I'll get this car going with you guys on board!

Also when I check the fuel pressure with a gauge, could the reason fo not holding pressure be because Im dead on EMPTY? but just enough in there to crank it

 

Ok, I went out and got me a new IAC and TPS sensors.

When I compared the old with the new it was a night and day difference on the IAC.... on mine my spring was out alot further and I do remember the thing falling out when I was cleaning it. So I just went ahead and replaced it with the new one and I though what the hell lets just get a TPS while im at it.

SO I'll wait til the morning to start it up again its too late now. and then I'll drop it off the jack stands and push it out in the drive and wash then push back in and place right back on the stands till I bolt up exhaust....tomorrow will probably be the nicest day in a while....and the car has gotten so dirty and dusty and spider webs under the car.. sitting in the garage for the last 7 months.

 

It takes a "dimented" person to understand me. I'm not sure that's a good thing...

Yes, that IS what I was suggesting.

 

Oh man, I sure do hate those spiders. Those things are really nasty and they bite. Sucks to be working under the car after its been sitting and then get biten 20 times in the process.

Lol, Vader, not that demented, not quite as demented as the person who beat me to the correct spelling of my email address. He must've lost it long before I did. :lala:

 

well heres the poor guy nice and cleaned and hoodless ready to go....I still have to tune it correctly but my main concern is the cranking issue.....

When I go to crank it, it strains to even turn over and fire I have the timing set to 8* but it strains so much...and then when I do get it cranked and shut it off the car wont crank again, I turn the key but I get nothing sometimes a click.....I then have to charge it for a few and then again strains to crank....I took the battery out and took it to have it test and it shows good.

What can I look for as to what might be causing this problem? I have it grounded to the block, well actually where I think a fuel pump would go on the block but its still part of the block itself.

What is taking the juice or not alowing the juice to get to the starter?

 

one more of the engine....help me out guys...please!?

 

Ahhhhh............the simplicity of holley carburetion msd ignition and............. NO COMPUTER...........remember the good old days..........Duntov 3030.......holley 3 barrel.....accell dual point distributors..........man I wish I had that 66 chevelle again...........

 

Next time you go to crank it, have someone put a DVM across the battery and see what kind of voltage drop your getting. If the voltage drops alot then there is a very large load being put across the battery, or the battery is faulty. The possibilities for there being so much load are too much advance, incorrect backlash between the pinion and the flexplate/flywheel, or the starter is bad. If there isnt much of a load (voltage drop) then there is something impeding the current.

Also, what work did you do to the car while it was down?

 

It ain't the computer causing the problem.

Take the starter and have it checked, it sounds like it is drawing too much ampreage. Have them do a through check on it, it it is on the high end of good, replace it. With a high draw (even if within allowable) when you add the extra of resistance of turning the engine it will be too much, especially on a "tight" engine.

 

This is what I did to it while I had it down.
added:

LT1 cam
1.6 rollers
summit true roller timing chain
new springs 510 lift
under drive pullies
160 stat
160 fan switch
SLP Tri-Y 1.58 headers...ACS coated
MSD wires, coil and cap
removed all my air crap and EGR

and while I was removing the screw that holds all the wires on the selenoid to the starter the body of the selenoid cranked all apart so I did replace that too.
Also when I was going to put a heat shield on my starter there are 2 bolts that hold the starter cover/body on, well one of them got stripped out so I dint put it back on....I wouldnt think that would cause this problem. The starter worked fine before all this and would crank the car in less than half a crank...if you know what I mean. I never touched the starter or the bolts holding that hold it on the motor. the only thing I mess with was the selenoid.

since been trying to crank it I have also replaced my IAC and TPS to try and fix the other problems Im having but I want to get the cranking issue done first before anything..thats keeping me from doing anything else.

 

More infomation on that starter, please. It's missing a bolt? Would that be one of th ebolts that holds it to the block? A bolt that holds the solenoid to teh starter? What "cover" are you describing?

 

its not the bolt that holds it to the block or the bolts that holds the solenoid to the starter.

Heres a picture I found on the site. Thats the kind of heat shield I was going to put on...the arrow marks the location on the bolt that was stripped out so I just left it out.

 

There is a long bolt and a short one on the starter that the heat shield uses. I'm guessing he meant the short one since the long one is one of the ones that holds the armature "can" onto the starter body and without that the starter would be trying to seperate every time you tried to crank the car.

 

and heres a picture of my starter and the solenoid that I put on it..

dont mind that peice of aluminum heat tape that I had wrapped around the wires....I thook that off...what if there was a piece still left on it, would that make a difference?

 

Ooooo, one of the end cap bolts, you need that on there or the cap will try to pop off when cranking, one bolt isn't enough to hold the whole thing together.

 

could that be my problem? it cranks but like I said it strains really bad to crank...and so forth ..posted above about my crnaking problems

 

here is the bolt, the circle is where it is stripped...

oh yeah and a picture of my hand too.....

all that bolt does is hold the cap on...it doesnt have naything to do with cranking the car? or does it? I seriuosly think that is not my problem.

I dont want to get off ...what else should I look for.....when I bolted the wires back on to the solenoid I made sure they were the same...

 

I would almost bet on it, you may have trashed the bearings/bushings in it by now if the cap was trying to come off.

 

would that create a strain when cranking? Isnt that cap just a cover?

how many bolts to remove the starter? 2?

SOB!...I dont want to have to remove that thing!

 

With that bolt missing the case is probably tweaking pretty good. Try finding a replacement and see if the starter will still function ok. Otherwise, a new starter is in order.

 

AFAIK, that cap supports the rear of the armature in the starter. Without it secured, itll scoot around under load.

 

The starter has no chance of working right without that bolt in it.

The "cap" is more than a cover. It is the support for the bearing that supports the end of the starter motor shaft.

EIther repair the stripped threads with an insert and re-install the bolt, or replace the starter.

 

Oh, THAT "cover" bolt...

I'd vote for the latter of RB's suggestions. If you've cranked the engine several times with that bolt missing, the damage os probably already done to the field, armature, and commutator/brush holders. I'd be shopping for a replacement starter.

 

So would that cause it to strain while trying to crank and somethimes not even crank? well damn!.......I'll go to Lowes right now and see if I can get a bolt that length and try it. If it doesnt work,

I hear that I can use a starter from a later camaro that is smaller and lighter...what is the exact year and type that I would need to get? Reason being is that I have read that the bolt pattern for mounting the starters are different on some years so I dont want to buy one that has different bolt patterns.


one problem after another!....

 

Remove the starter (which you'll have to do anyway) and disassemble it. You'll see how the field has pulled the armature against it like an electomagnetic brake, and tried to prevent it from rotating all while the armature was trying to rotate and crank the engine. The starter motor would produce very little if any rotational power because of that, making any engine cranking almost impossible.

You may not have to completely disassemble it to see the damage. Just remove the other end cover bolt and look along the armature. Sift through all the metal and see what I mean.

The LT1/Vortc starter (reduction gear) should bolt right up to a '81-later SBC. You probably won't even need a heat shield with it. As long as you get one for a 153 tooth flywheel, you should be fine. However, even a good remanufactured "regular old" SBC starter should be fine.

 

Ok,OK, I believe ya!...
When I go to advance, AZ or the chevy dealer what year car do I ask about for that type starter your talking about? I'll go there tomorrow. I would go up there now but it just started snowing like craxy and I aint gonna work in the garage when its this cold....luckly I did get it wshed and back under the car cover yesterday...

I went by AZ this mornign and checked on the price, only about $40 but I would much rather put the smaller than that big *** heavy thing I saw....

Thanks guys!

 

Wishmaster,

I've read your post over the past 6 months or so & brother you have got luck just like mine. It could be raining Pu$$ys outside & you would get hit in the head w/ a Dick !!!! We both should have had the same last name "Murphy" !
Hey man you've got a real nice Iroc there & what you have done to the looks of that TPI set-up is really out of this world. Keep your cool & don't loose your focus, because it's all gonna be worth it in the end.

Oh yea by the way, I know that it's usually hard to get a car to the muffler shop, especially without it's own power. But on a street car where there so many more variables "compared to an all out race car" having the complete exhaust system intact after installing major mod's does help quite a lot "especially if you have neighbors that are a pain in the side".

Best Wishes, Bruce (70GTO)

 

Nice post 70GTO.....thanks...........................yeah it has been 6 or so months that I have been doing this project on and off. I just want to get the damn thing rolling again, I dont care if I only gain 10hp....atleast it looks good...LOL..yeah right?! If thats the case then I'll just do it again this winter with something else..but you guys are right, I know this engine atleast the outside part like the back of my hand!...I just hope when I change the starter and it better fix this problem that I dont come up with another one. I just then want to be able to tune it right and be done with it. Im going to get the 95 camaro starter that is lighter and smaller. I looked at it from the bottom and dont have to remove my ppassenger header or nothing...just the flywheel dust cover...and 2 bolts.....I hope!

 

I didnt say that it was the computer I just commented on the complexity of his engine compartment.........and that bolt is called a thru bolt and if you need 1 I work maintenance at 1 of the nations largest starter and alt rebuilders.............I can send you 1 or 2.........

 

MAN, I know exactly what Bruce is saying, my luck is much the same. Not to hijack the thread, or be too off topic, but you know you have bad luck when looking to see what Thermotstat you have turns into a week long project, entailing a new intake and hours of work...

Back on subject... I would say the Starter may be the problem, but I would double and triple check your grounds. My father's truck had a problem somewhat simular to this, it would crank slow, but usually start up fine when cold. Once the engine ran for a few minutes, it simply would not start again, even when jumping it, it would barely start.

Replaced the starter, it seemed better for about a week, then it started up again, slower cranking, and eventually it acted the same. Now he had dual batteries, both of which were Deep Cycle-Marine style batteries, and both of them would barely start it at times, expecially warm. Another starter, no real difference.

One freak day, he couldn't get it started, and when he jumped it, the ground end of the cable was clipped to the block and it fired right up and cranked normal even warm. That pointed the problem to a ground, instead of starter or battery.

Replaced the ground cable, from the block to the battery, never had another problem.

As for idle, I too am fighting with my idle, can't get it where I want it (with the IAC that is) it's either too high, or too low.. I guess I need a new chip. I get it set right where I want it, then when I plug in the IAC it goes back up to 750-850 in gear and around 900 in p or n.

I like the looks of you TPI setup, I would love to do that with mine.

Keep the head up, and remember, things will be fine eventually, just a bit of work to get it running like you want. I am very picky about how it runs, and it takes me along time to get anything like I want it, but I always think about how it will be when I have it JUST like I want it.

 

Ok guys,


I got the starter off, is there anyway I can test it. I'll post a pic here ina few...for some reason the starter feels light, not like the 23lbs that I have read unless it just seems light to me..I'll put it on my scale and see what the weight is...

Anyways, if I buy a new starter and then it does the same thing, then what? I made sure the ground was ok from the battery to the block. when I post a pic I show what wires were where on the solenoid......

BRB!

 

ok heres the picture....on the starter cap...it says DELCO REMY
#1998580 70 23


what starter did I have? anyway to pull the part# up anywhere?

The cap that is held by those to bolts dont look like they hold anything together but what do I know...

never mind, I pulled it up on acdelco.com and it says it was for my car back on 87-89


man I hope th new one works....

oh well hope it works cause I just ordered the 1995 Z28 starter and going to pick it up in the morning. Then I'll wait till theres some dummy in there and return my 87 starter...hope they dont catch it...

 

Teh way you have the wiring is correct. The positive lead/fuseable links hook to the large terminal and the solenoid wire hooks to teh terminal closest to the block. The other terminal is to supply constant 12 volts for accesories. Nothing connected to that one.

 

I seriously doubt that its the starter...it seems fine to me....but if you guys say so...I guess I need a new starter anyways..but I could have spent that money elsewhere...

my luck would be that its was because of the wiring on the solenoid but I checked that.....when I put the solenoid on there was really no way you could put it on wrong...I wasted my money on that cause I didnt save the old one thinking everything would be ok...and now I have to return the new solenoid with the old starter and get a new one with the new starter...only 18.00 I think but its still money.

and I checked the wires behind the passenger head and they didnt look to be frayed in anyway....but I guess we;'ll find out tomorrow...

 

Taking one of those bolts out is like taking one of your motor mount bolts out. I suspect youll find that your new starter will work much better then the present one with a bolt missing.

 

WOW!..I cant believe how much smaller the LT1 95 camaro starter is....the solenoid looks different.

I know the battery positive goes where I have the arrow but where do I run the purple wire?

 

To the only place it can go.... the small terminal.

 

I thought that might be where it went but the older starter had 2 little terminals....whats the wire thats already connected to the other terminal and going into the starter? thanks RB for a fast reply,,,,Im out there woring on it right now....

Let me ask another question? how do I know if I need to shim the new starter? the old one didnt have one...and I cant really see if the teeth are gonna match up cause the gear is in the stater and not engaged. DO I just hook it up and see what happens?

thanks again!

 

Yup, just put it on and try it, if the old one didn't need one then this one probably won't either. You don't have to pull it all the way off even if it does need some shim, you can loosen one bolt and remove the other, and slide the shim(s) in.... if you have to do that, one look at the shims and you'll see how. But it probably won't be an issue.

 

Arnt those starters the ones with perminent magnets instead of the current guzzling field coils?