Okay, my friend has an '89 2.8 Camaro, and his motor seized (cracked oil pan). He knows someone with an '86 2.8 in his garage. We're getting the motor for $100, and doing the swap next weekend- yes, this is a low-budget swap, so please, no comments about "put a v8 in". None of us three have the time or money to do a conversion on the daily-driven "only" car.

Now, is there anything I should do to this motor- checking it out, etc- I don't know how long it's been garaged for. I assume I should put fresh oil in it, spin the oil pump somehow, and try to turn the motor with a breaker bar to do a compression test. I assume if the motor doesn't turn, that means the rings have rusted to the bores- should we ignore that or fix it?

I don't see how we can do any machine work to it- the time & money thing is important.

Could other stuff have gone wrong? I know that seals can dry out, and etc. Keep in mind this is low-budget. We should be getting the motor this Sunday. That gives us a week of "after-work" time.

Should we replace head gaskets? If we do replace the head gaskets, can we get away without decking the heads? Will we need to set valve-lash, or will everything be fine as long as we don't (A) mix up the pushrods and (B) touch the rocker arms? The timing chain will stay because of the time/budget factor- plus we can always do that later. Should we replace the rear seal? Oil pan? Can an oil pump sump be cleaned & re-used, or should it just be left alone?

If you have hints regarding the actual engine swap, feel free to let me know at this message on the V6 board: https://www.thirdgen.org/messgboard/...ML/001004.html I know quite a bit about the 2.8/3.1 engines, and have done just about everything to mine. I'm just wondering about "little stuff"...

Thanks in advance!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
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first thing you need to find out is how the engine was stored and why it was removed in the first place. If it were mine, I'd re-gasket the engine because it's a lot easier to do it now than install it and find you need to later. I think you already have a pretty good idea what needs to be done. If the rockers havn't been removed, there is no need to reset preload. If the engine has been well preserved (pre-lubricated with protectant of some sort and covered up) you may be able to just change the oil, prime the pump and drop it in.

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Kyle Osterholt
Okarche, Oklahoma
ASE Master Certified
86 T/A 383 TPI
89 TTA #1002 T-top/Leather
89 TTA #1358 Hardtop/Leather
80 T/A Pace Car
73 Opel GT
73 bronco

 

Thanks for the info! I have a feeling though, Kyle, that this motor wasn't kept correctly. That's why I wonder if we should use that, or a junkyard one.

The junkyard I visit told me last year that he'd sell me a 2.8 for $100. He then pointed to one car, said it just came in and ran perfect, and said he'd pull that one. I wonder if we should go back and see if he's got another good-running one; one that hasn't been stored for who-knows-how-long.

What happens when an engine isn't stored correctly? (I hope he left the spark plugs in!) I've heard of piston rings being broken free from their bores, but I don't know how- or if that's safe for the motor or not. Thanks!

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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited February 16, 2001).]

 

if you want to check the condition of the rings i'd do leak down test, it'd be hard to do compression test. i'd change oil and filter, squirt a little oil in each cylinder, and as kyle said i'd consider changing any gaskets the look like they may be leaking. make sure you can spin the engine with a breaker bar or ratchet befroe you sit it in the car.

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ICON Motorsports

1st & 3rd

 

Why would a compression test be hard to do? Or are you saying (which is true) that it's not as accurate? I'm not sure the guy I'm going to has shop air; plus, I don't have a leakdown tester at my place. I'm not going to buy him a tool

So if we can't spin the engine (rings frozen or something), we should pass it up?

Should we replace the head gaskets anyway, just for craps & giggles? I'm sort of against doing that, because of the time issue, but my other 2 friends think we should.


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

With the engine on a proper stand, you could hook the starter up to a battery with jumper cables and a start switch (read: screwdriver) and do a compression check (assuming the flex plate is on). First make sure it will turn over with a breaker bar with the spark plugs removed, and hold the trottle open while checking cylinder pressure, of course.

The oil pump could be checked by removing the distributor and spinning the pump with a drill motor. Hook up a mechanical oil pressure gage to monitor. A $25 oil primer should be used to properly seal off the upper lube passages.

If the engine doesn't turn over, the engine should be torn down and rebuilt. If you pull the heads, you'll have to set the valves after reassembly (I doubt the head gaskets would be a seal problem from sitting, though - that's more like valve covers, oil pan, and front & rear main seal). But, if everything else checks out, I'd be tempted to just install it without bothering any of the gaskets.

Not sure what you mean by the "oil pump sump". Technically, that's the oil pan. But whether you're talking about that or the oil pump pickup, the answer is the same about cleaning and reuse - "yes". If you pull the pan, replacing the oil pump would be a very good idea (not sure if this lasted throughout, but my '80 Citation 2.8 had an aluminum pump - not so good...).

The $100 junkyard engine sounds like a pretty good deal if it ran and is guarenteed.

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82 Berlinetta, orig V-6 car, now w/86 LG4/TH700R. 2.93 limited slip. Cat-back from '91 GTA, Accel HEI SuperCoil. AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Daily driver, work-in-progress (LG4 w/LB9 block, ZZ3 cam and intake, WP 305 heads ported & polished, Hooker headers & y-pipe, 3" Catco cat).
57 Bel Air, my 1st car. 0.030 over 396, Weiand Action+, Edelbrock 1901 Q-Jet, Jacobs Omnipack, 1-3/4" headers, TH400 w/TCI Sat Night Special conv & Trans-Scat shift kit, 3.08 10-bolt w/Powertrax, AMSOIL syn lubes bumper-to-bumper. Best 15.1 @ 5800' Bandimere. Daily driver while Camaro was being put together.

 

So we need the speed of a starter motor to do a compression test? Now I get it. I have a spare '86 distributor in my basement- could I install it, spin the shaft with a drill, and avoid buying the $25 oiler? I'm not even sure they make one for a v6.. all the oilers I've seen are for "305/350 and 90 degree V6's"- this 2.8 is a 60 degree.

Thanks for the list of seals that we should replace (that is, if we think we should, heh). Hopefully my friends won't want to do the head gaskets. I do have an extra top-end gasket set in the basement- all that's missing is the head gaskets.

And yes, that's what I meant; the pickup, not sump. Thanks for reminding me about the aluminum-vs-steel pump issue. I think aluminum pumps stopped in early f-body 2.8's- but what's early? 84 or 87? We'll have to check that out with a magnet- but like I said, we're all on a budget. I suppose I could disassemble the oil pump and check it out for scratches, and measure clearances with a feeler gauge. I have those specs at home. At least the '86 block will have the larger mains; too bad it's not internally balanced like the 87-up's. Hopefully the thing came from an auto-tranny car; if we have to switch out the flexplate for a flywheel, we're in some deep trouble.

I'm not sure if the junkyard would guarantee the engine. The guy knows me from coming in all the time.. ah well hell if the motor dies he should at least replace it right? Do you think we should go for the junkyard engine over the garaged engine? That's the idea that I lean toward... in fact if you couldn't tell, that's what's I have the most questions about


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

 

Take the gear off the old distributor, and that'll work. You need cranking speed to check compression.

I'd still check the compression and oil pressure on the junkyard engine, but yeah, that's what I'd lean towards, too. If the oil pressure is good, I wouldn't bother disassembling the pump unless you are planning other hi-po stuff (but you're on a budget...). Only change gaskets or seals that appear to have been leaking.

 

Oh yeah! Duh. I would've been trying to spin the camshaft.. hehehe. Thanks five7!

I'm talking with the guy whose car it is tonight; I'll have him find out more info about that garaged 2.8. Maybe I can swing him towards a junked one.

Thanks all!


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-Tom P (Hot rodded 1986 Firebird 2.8l) from http://www.f-body.net/mailbag/3rd/3rd_mailbag.html message boards
---Think your car could be pic of the week? Visit http://www.f-body.net for details!

[This message has been edited by TomP (edited February 19, 2001).]