Do any of y'all believe it would be possible to get 400 hp at the crank with a carbureted 335 stroker? I've never rebuilt an engine before so this combination may be way off, but this is what I was planning to do:

-bore .030 over
-stroke to 335 (I believe there is a kit from Powerhouse that includes most everything needed to do this including Keith Black pistons that give somewhere around a 10-11:1 compression ratio)
-Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap intake manifold
-Holley 600 cfm carb (not sure whether VS or MS)
-World Products S/R Torquer heads (1.94/1.50 intake/exhaust, 170cc intake port, 58cc combustion chamber)
-Hedman long tube headers (1-5/8" primaries, 3" collector)
-not sure about exhaust yet, maybe true duals with high flow cats and chambered glasspacks or flowmaster 80 series with a custom y-pipe
-exhaust cutouts before cats
-new high performance distributor (maybe Mallory???)
-Cam???? I am thinking 240-250 duration @.050" with 110 LSA and .500" lift @ valves and 280-290 adv. duration
-new fuel pump.....any suggestions??
-new lifters (obviously), pushrods, and 1.5 or 1.6:1 roller rockers ( whichever is needed to achieve specified lift)

I am sure I am going to be called overambitious for this, and chances are my projected setup is all wrong. I will gladly accept any constructive criticism or advice as y'all know a heck of a lot more about this than I do. I have a lot of questions such as: Is the stroker kit worth it? Will a 600 cfm carb be enough? Will this combo work good to 6500 rpm (my goal for a shift point)? I am not real concerned with emissions as we don't have to worry about testing here in the great state of South Carolina. I am also not very concerned with mileage as this will not be a daily driver. Once again I will appreciate any advice but please no "just ditch the 305 and get a 350." I want to work with what I have since this if my first engine rebuild. Thanks in advance for any help.

Adam

 

Sounds like a bit too much cam for a 305.

 

too much cam howso? too much lift or too long duration or both?

 

Instead of doing that, go find a builder 350 shortblock, get a 383 rotating kit from Powerhouse, Sportsman II heads, and everything else you planned. For the same money, you'll have well over 400 gross flywheel HP.

Or for less money, forget the stroker stuff and be really close, if not over, the 400 HP figure.

400 HP non-stroked 305's have been documented. They had to spin so high that the non-upgraded rods failed soon after acheiving the 400 #.

The Powerhouse kit doesn't included upgraded rods, BTW.

I'd suggest you forget the 305 thing, forget the stroker thing, and do what you propose to a 350 and add good high RPM-capable rods & valvetrain components.

 

I am with formularpm. That is a lot of cam for a 305. the lobe seperation is ok as is the amount of lift. The duration is a little on the high side. that cams powerband would be like 3000-7000 or so,maybe more. The specs you provided would yield mid 60's° for valve overlap (advertised). That would pull crappy vacuum at idle. Which kind of helps for braking.

Remember, for camshafts, bigger is not always better.

 

i think a 350 can be done cheaper.

 

http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html

305's can be made to put out numbers that they aren't "supposed" to. I just started mocking up my 305 LT1 engine that will fit into that section of speculation.

The only mismatch I see on your spec list is the size of the header primaries. 1 3/4 would be better for the proposed output (and higher RPM that would require). Stick with 10:1 or under on the iron heads though, especially with the higher piston speed of the stroker kit.

 

I believe the question was is it possible to get 400hp out of a 305 and the response of course is shut up and get a 350. Thats really nice . If everbody just got the most effecient cost to power engines then we would all have the same power and times that would be pretty boring(communist China anyone or how about Cuba that went well).

Getting back to the question at hand I think you might get there but like mentioned early that is too much cam.

Don't believe most of the 305 articles online like the carcraft 305.

If that combo doesn't make 400 hp it should at least get around 350hp and mess up your traction pretty good.

 

I only mentioned the 350 because of the originator's proposed plan to do the Powerhouse 335 stroker. Since that is a MAJOR undertaking and MAJOR expense, pointing out that for the same money you can make more power with less hassle going to a 350 is the only responsible thing to do.

Sometimes it's the question not asked that needs to be answered.

Adam, since you say you've never done a rebuild before, it should also be pointed out that you don't just buy that kit from Powerhouse and install it in your 305 block. First, it requires the cylinders to be bored .030" over, which is a machine-shop only operation. Then, when you get the block back from the machine shop, you need to spend additional time grinding the oil pan rails to get the proper clearance for the rods as they swing around with their extra stroke. If the machine shop that does the cylinder boring has done strokers before, they'll know what needs to be done and can do it while they've got the block, but that's added expense.

Then, you need to understand that, like a factory 400, the 335 stroker is "externally balanced", meaning special externally-balanced damper and flexplate must be used. That's another $200 expense, if you get the parts from Powerhouse. Most externally-balanced flexplates are of the 14"/168-tooth variety, which requires a different starter. With most 3rd gen headers (and you aren't getting to 400 HP without headers), that means a standard size starter gets in the way. So, mini-starter, another added expense.

400 HP is SOOOoooo much easier to obtain with a 350; you can work up the 350 while you continue to drive the 305; for the same expense you can get a much more street-friendly 383 built - Why in the world would you let someone continue on the "400 HP street 305" path unless they are totally committed to the "being different" pipe dream? (Funny how nobody remembers the part in the article where they admit it wouldn't be a very good street engine.)

That's why the "shut up and get a 350" responses.

Actually, nobody said anything like "shut up"; I thought all the responses were very tactfully worded.

 

Now that you explained it more it makes sense, but most times anybody wants to talk about horsepwoer and the 305 people don't even comment they just tell them to get a 350.

 

Thanks for the input guys. After much thought and deliberation (and smacking myself on the head for being an idiot), I think im just gonna get a 350 and start a buildup on that haha. There are many more parts and options with that motor. I'm just gonna get the 305 runnin so I can drive it home at the end of the semester and work on it there. Thanks again.

Adam

 

And I haven't yet attached my sig in this thread, so if you think I'm biased against 305's, perhaps seeing what I'm running will help dispel that notion.

 

The SCCA American Sedan Camaros have to run 305s with stock L69 heads (portmatched w/ 3 angle valve job). They are about 11:1 CR, and have a .480" max cam lift. They run an Edelbrock performer RPM intake with 650 Holley.

I have heard numbers in the 380 to 400hp range for a pro built motor, so 400 out of a similarly built 335 sounds attainable. The cam sounds fine too. I run a 230/230 duration .480" lift @.050" cam in my 305 with no probs.

 

you can build a 305 if you want.....in the end you will learn your lesson...i didnt listen to these guys.....hyper pistons.....ported heads....9.3:1 compression with hogged out 416 heads with bigger valves.....166 energizer cam....roller rockers....performer rpm intake....holley 600vs carb....edelbrock headers with 3" exhaust....2300 stall conveter and 3.42 rear....lol...sure it isnt the best or most expensive combo by any means and you are gonna stroke it....but i couldnt even get past 14.82 with this combo..*shrugs.....i HIGHLY suggest a 350.....but if you want....be my guest and build a 305

 

Hey, the only "idiots" I've ever met are the ones who don't research their projects first.

You've shown good initiative and learned about 335 strokers as a bonus. Doesn't sound like an idiot to me

five7kid is a 305 user himself, in case you didn't know. And he'll tell you to build that 305, too, if the shortblock is in good shape. But if the shortblock is going kaput then the only good advice is to go the 350 route--saves a fair chunk of change when all is said and done.

 

I've got a chevy van that runs 15.5s @ 88 in the 1/4 with a little 305 small block. It has a 700r4 and 3.42:1 posi rear. The engine mods are in my sig. The only change since then is I have an edelbrock 1405 600 cfm carb now. It really needs headers but local smog laws won't allow them. (Can't find any with air pump bungs).

 

All that and you could only muster a 14.82?! That's pathetic. Something was way wrong, and it wasn't that you had a 305. There are plenty of darn near STOCK 305's here that'll beat that number, starting with my old CFI 305 that ran 14.5.

 

Aight guys, my plans have changed again haha. I am going to stick with the 305 and build it just minus the stroker kit. The entire engine only has about 40000 miles on it so I think it is still in pretty dang good shape. I figure I can get at least 300 hp at the crank out of that combo, plus that way it wont tear up the transmission as quick.... I'm wantin to run in the 13's with this combo. Will this work or will I need nitrous or a supercharger. I am trying to decide between 3.73 and 3.42 gears behind the 700R4. I figure this might be a little easier on my budget and my time. I will just change the heads, intake and distributor for now and then get a new cam and lifters this summer. Dang, I'm really indecisive haha. I at least know what I want now....:lala:


Adam

 

If you optomize this set-up for the strip, you can get the 305 into the 13's w/o power adders. Fairly healthy cam, good head porting, tall gears that puts the engine at redline at the finish line, lots of converter stall, lots of traction, 600 DP carb.

Wouldn't be too street friendly, but you could drive it to the track.

 

Ok, I didn't read through everyone else's posts because I'm tired and lazy. But LISTEN TO ME, I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! First off, forget about the 600 holley, those are junk. Go with a doubler pumper 650 if you are looking for maximum street performance. Also, do NOT waste money on World Products heads. They are flat out a waste of money, when you have choices available to you like Vortec that make MORE power for less money. I've built several very fast 305 carburated thirdgens in my day, and there are certain combos that just work. Here's my combo:


My girlfriends 1985 LG4 Trans Am.......
stock LG4 305 long block
STOCK UNPORTED HEADS
Comp Cam Extreme Energy 262 Cam
stock pushrods
"Z28" bargain valvesprings ($40 from my local hot rod shop)
Comp Cams 1.6 Magnum roller rockers
Performer RPM intake (air gaps are a waste of money)
Holley Double Pumper 650
Hedman headers
3inch exhaust with single 3inch catback to single 3inch in hooker aerochamber muffler 3inch 3inch out (MUCH more efficient than crossflow muffs, and lighter too)
Peg Leg 3.42 rearend out of an V6 thirdgen (yes peg leg hooks fine on a 305 with decent suspension)


If this isn't a budget 305 street setup, I don't know what is. Most of the parts I got used (rocker arms, intake, rearend, headers, ect.) In fact the only new parts were the cam, valve springs and catback.

On this particular combo, her Trans Am (1985) with a bone stock 700R4 tranny, 3.42 gears and stock tires went 14.3's@97mph all day long. Remember..........this is STOCK heads. Had I put my vortecs on her motor, I would guess we could have easily cracked 13's. But instead I did the smart thing, yanked the 305, stuck in a used 350 short block, put on some ported vortecs, and reused the cam, intake, ect....now her car runs deep into the 13's at well over 100MPH.

 

Oh and btw, her 305 had 150,000 hard miles on it BEFORE I even started throwing mods at it So we're not talking about a fresh 305 here that ran good times because it was nice and new.

 

rear axle ratio makes a huge difference you have to keep this in mind

a vehicle with a certain drivetrain and with a horrible ratio such as 2.73 or 3.08 will be a dog compared to the same vehicle with same drivetrain but with 3.42 or 3.73, thats all there is to it
more RPM at a given speed = faster

 

Anybody else have any opinions on the WP S/R Torquer heads? Would I be better off porting my stock heads than buying Vortecs or WP's?

 

One more thing, I already bought the Holley 600 VS, so I'm gonna stick with it. I also bought a K&N 14x3 open element filter. If I use a Performer RPM Air Gap will it still fit under the stock hood? I was planning on buying the IROC Daytona hood that has a 2" or 2.5" cowl. If this is enough should I go ahead and get it? Thanks.

Adam

 

lol...i forgot to mention that my 60ft was 2.7....lol...but i just wanted to try to convince him outta a 305..oh well

 

Well that 2.7 expalins a lot.

 

Performer RPM air gap=waste of money+bad hood clearance

Just use a regular performer rpm or something like a weian stealth.

Just because its newer doesn't mean its better.

 

Just a couple of thoughts. You mentioned that this was your first engine build. Maybe you should go through the 305 or build a 350 instead of playing around with stroker cranks and all of that stuff. I took my 305HO, freshened it up with new rings, and bearings, a hi-volume oil pump and a generic cam, (I don't have the specs in front of me, but it was 214 duration and as I recall about 410 lift,split pattern cam). I found an early q-jet, rebuilt that with a recurved early HEI. I bead blasted the stock intake and blocked off the EGR. The little motor runs awesome for what it is and gets decent mileage. (well ,decent for having a 4.10 posi and a T5) I don't think I have $400.00 in the whole deal. Getting 400hp out of something sounds real cool, but having good driveability, is even more fun, especially if it's your only car. The other option is to pick up another engine and build it as you have time and money, then swap them over some weekend. Whoever said that changing the gearing is important is dead right. a gear change is probably the most bang for the buck in how well your accelerates. However, headers usually give the biggest boost in engine horsepower. The thing is, get a combination that works together.