Ok I'm in the process of building my 383 and it's my first engine ever. A lot of guys criticize me for choosing a 383 for my first build, but such is life. So here's the problems I have right now. I was installing my balancer the other day and ran into an unforseen problem. The balancer I have is larger in diameter than a stocker. It was going to hit my timing tab on the stock cover and under the advice of my machinist I cut the tab off. My question is how will I time the motor now? Also, the balancer I have is basically a stock design with the rubber inside. Will this hold up to 400-500 hp? I think I may have shot myself in the foot by not spending the extra money for a fluid filled one.

------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

When you have the motor with #1 at TDC, place some timing tape on the balancer, and refernce to some point on the engine for "0", you can also make a 'pointer" and bolt it where ever you want to indicate on the balancer, and set the tape to it.

 

Another thing, check with GM, there's been 3 or 4 different balancer and timing mark setup through the years on SBC's, one may work right for you.

 

There are some adjustable timing pointers available for chevys, they bolt up to 2 of the timing cover bolts.

 

madmax is correct. They are made by Tavia. But for the extra cost of insurance, and from what it looks like to me, I would have gottem a better balancer than stock.

Keep us informed.

------------------
350 4 bolt main, Speed-O-Motive 383 stroker kit, re-sized rods ground for clearance,TRW Forged pistons,10.7:1 compression,HPC Coated RPM intake, Speed Demon 750 cfm carb,World Products Sportsman II heads,2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Cam 1.6 roller rockers, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,240/246@.050 with .540 lift,Crane pushrods,ATI damper,Proform HEI and MSD6A box,HPC coated 1 5/8 headers, 2.5" exhaust with 40 series mufflers,TH350 with B&M 3000 stall, Powertrax NoSlip Locker, 4.11 gears.

 

Does Tavia have a website? If not where can I find these pointers? Summit or Jegs? Thanks.

------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

you can get the larger bolt-on timing tab from Auto-Zone, or order from summit if you like. I have found a couple in junkyards also.

they only bolt on one way, so no big deal.

 

This is a kind of tricky situation.

Timing chain cover timing tabs and harmonic (torsional) dampers are a matched set. Changing either can change the timing as shown by the light. Having a tab that's adjustable isn't much good if you don't know in which direction and in what amount to adjust it.

Without verifying the accuracy of the two marks, when your light blinks on at 10 degrees BTDC, you probably don't have 10 degrees.

Over the years, I've seen plenty of combos off a lot. I just delivered a 355 to a guy for his Vette that was off 6 degrees.

One way is to verify the accuracy of the mark on the damper and the zero point on the tab using the positive stop method on the #1 cylinder.

That way, when the zero mark on the tab is aligned with the damper TDC mark, you're sure it's accurate; without doing this you won't really know for sure what you have.

An alternate and much easier method is just to use a quality timing light with a dial back **** in the rear. That way, you can skip the positive stop stuff and let the light verify the accuracy of the two reference points.

On the engine stand, I had to use the positive stop method, which involves a degree wheel, pointer, piston stop and hand turning the engine.. With an engine in the car it's a lot harder because of the size of the degree wheel and hand turning the engine against the resistance of the valve springs.

So you'd have to pull all the plugs and loosen all the valves, and then try to fit the degree wheel to the damper. Then figure a way to turn the engine without disturbing the degree wheel (probably from the flexplate).

A LOT of work involved.

Hope this helps.

Jake

------------------
1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9

 

JakeJr I have a few questions for you

"An alternate and much easier method is just to use a quality timing light with a dial back **** in the rear. That way, you can skip the positive stop stuff and let the light verify the accuracy of the two reference points."
Can you explain this method to me a little better? What would be the second reference point? I'm assuming the first is the mark on the balancer.

"On the engine stand, I had to use the positive stop method, which involves a degree wheel, pointer, piston stop and hand turning the engine."
My engine is out of the car. Can you describe this method to me, because I don't have heads on right now or anything like that so I might do this.


------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

I use a dial indicator to observe piston motion when the engine is headless. It's accurate to within a small fraction of a degree. Use a crank socket to turn the engine to exactly TDC as found by the dial indicator, then partially install the balancer to check the pointer.

My experience is like Jake's with timing marks. I have found less than 25% of them to be even remotely accurate; and out of a number of them that I have checked over a period of time, several have not stayed consistent. The mark is not on the part of the balancer that's connected to the crank, it's on the part that's separated from the crank by a blob of spooge.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

RB,

I'm still laughing, even though I've seen that one before. I think we should lobby the boys at GM Pwertrain to officially cease the use of the term "elastomeric isolator" and adopt the more apt "blob of splooge". Good stuff.

Incidentally, I think you're right. Anything other than a FluidDamper probably can't be trusted any more than a ***** driver.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"No matter how hard you try you can't stop us now..."
Adobe Acrobat Reader 4.0

 

The blob of spooge is very true, but I need something to work with here. Especially for intial timing on the new engine.

 

Paul,
forget what you just read about using a dialback timing light. That is not what a dialback light is used for.
If your damper has slipped or doesn't match your timing tab or pointer, then a light will be of no help.

 

If you're wanting to know how to set the ignition timing, the mark is of no use anyway, even if it's accurate. You have an engine that's completely different from anything you can look up the "spec" for, so going to some book and making your mark line up to that number has odds somewhere between slim and none of being the optimum setting for your engine anyway.

So, the answer to how you will set your timing is: you will adjust it until the engine runs its best. Usually that will be as far advanced as possible without causing pinging. A mark is of no value whatsoever in making that determination.

For initial timing, if you assemble the engine correctly with the distributor in the stock location, you can eyeball the timing within just a couple of degrees. That's plenty close enough to fire it up. Or, if you use the dial indicator method or some other sccurate way of finding TDC right as you are ready to set the timing, you canpull up on the ditributor shaft and turn it CCW to hold it up against the gear teeth, look at the little points of the reluctor and the pickup coil, and adjust them so that the reluctor teeth are about 1/8" CW of the pickup coil teeth, which is the position they will be in just after the engine fires. That way you will have some advance, but not too much, so it should fire right up.

You can replace your damper at any time, if you decide you want to upgrade it. That's about a 15 minute swap with the engine in the car.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

As far as upgrading my balancer goes wouldn't switching to an aftermarket one throw off my balance. My rotating assembly was balanced with the balancer. Or will the better balancer absorb this slight difference?

------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

Paul,
You will need to stay with a 400 balancer if it's stock or aftermarket to keep the engine balanced the same. Your 383 uses weight in the damper and on the flexplate for balance.

83 is halfway right about timing procedure though that is a very primitive way to get you in the ballpark of optimal timing.

The required spark advance maximum is ultimately a function of the burn rate of your fuel which varies with fuel type and engine loading. The crank stroke, rod length, and chamber efficiency also play a small role in advance requirements.
(burn rate is also affected by cylinder pressures)

I will soon write a post on tuning procedure that may help you out.

ODB


[This message has been edited by The ODB (edited February 22, 2001).]

 

To verify the correctness of the tab and damper marks with the engine out of the car, here's what you do.

I always use the positive stop method with the driver's side head off. Others prefer using a dial indicator; to each his own. You can do it with the head on but you'd need a positive stop that screws into the #1 spark plug hole.

Using a dial indicator on #1 can introduce parallax error if the indicator is not properly aligned with the piston stroke. It's more prone to getting 'bumped' causing you to start all over again too.

Install the timing chain cover and timing tab and the harmonic damper. The damper does not have to be pressed on all the way, nor does the timing chain cover have to have all the bolts installed: just enough so everything won't move.

Bring the #1 piston up to TDC on the compression stroke.

Install the degree wheel and pointer. A piece of coat hangar can be used if you don't have a bolt on pointer. Sharpening the pointer end to a point will aid in accuracy.

Align the pointer with zero on the degree wheel.

Turn the crank in the normal direction of rotation until the piston drops about 2 inches or more.

Install the positive stop plate across the bore diameter of the #1 hole. You can make one out of a piece of 1/4 metal flat stock (thick enough so it won't deflect easily) by drilling three holes in it. Two of the holes should correspond to the location of two of the head bolts holes in the block and the third hole (centered between the other two) would be used for a 1-1/2 x 3/8" bolt and nut. The tip of the bolt should extend down into the cylinder as near the center of the bore as you can get it. Preferably the bolt should be placed so that it will make contact with the flat deck of the piston.

Now turn the engine by hand until the piston just makes contact with the bolt that is extending into the bore. What we're looking for is the exact same number on the degree wheel on both sides of Zero on the degree wheel.

Note the degree wheel reading.

Now turn the engine in the opposite direction until the piston falls then rises and again touches the bolt.

Again note the degree wheel reading.

If the two degree wheel readings are exactly the same you lucked up and hit TDC; but chances are they won't read the same.

If, say, you get a reading of 58 and 54, you'd move the pointer two degrees. Moving the pointer (your coat hangar) is easier than moving the degree wheel. The particular numbers you see aren't important; only that they match on either side of zero on the degree wheel.

The numbers will change depending on how far down in the bore piston/bolt contact is made.

Now do this all over again. This time both should read 56.

When you get the exact same numbers in both directions you've found it. To be sure, go back and forth several times; each time the degree wheel readings should match each other - clockwise and counter clockwise.

Without touching the degree wheel or pointer, turn the engine to lower the piston so that the positive stop can be removed.

Once its removed, turn the engine until the pointer(coat hangar) points exactly at zero on the degree wheel.

Look at your harmonic balancer and timing tab. The damper mark should be aligned with zero on the timing tab.

There are two ways to make any required correction. Move the timing tab or remarking the damper.

If you have an adjustable tab, adjust the tab until it's pointing at the TDC marking on the damper.

If you don't have an adjustable tab, you'll need to remark the damper at the spot directly aligned with zero on the timing tab.

I usually use two strips of masking tape leaving unmasked the area to be painted directly aligned with zero. Sort of like when you mask to pinstripe your car.

I then steal a bottle of my wife's brightest red fingernail polish and apply a few coats. Remove the tape and you'll have a perfectly straight line that will be easy to see with the timing light blinking.

Hope this helps.

Jake

------------------
1986 Corvette Coupe, 415 CID, Edelbrock 6073s, ZZ9

 

Red fingernail polish LOL! My old lady would kill me, I've just always used a bottle of white-out.

 

Thanks JakeJr...I think this will be my choice of methods.

------------------
Riccioli Performance Motorworks

--RPM Racing--

-Currently building first ever engine. 383 with Super Ram plenum and runners, Edelbrock lower intake, Bosch 24# injectors, either AFR or Trick Flow heads, MSD ignition.
-Will be installing Baer Brakes
-Will be installing full Spohn suspension in rear
-Art Carr 700R4 trans??


***** Flyby: (n) When you let off the throttle after beating a ***** Racer by a few car lengths and he then blows by you in an attempt to convince you he really won the race.

 

Jakejr,
This is really spooky. I also use red nail polish to mark my dampers, then clear coat over the whole thing.

Jethro, doesn't white out peal and flake?



no need to fight over this one.

 

Hehehe...it does eventually. I'm just afraid of the wife .

 

Well then, go get your own damn fingernail polish!! And have fun with the checkout girl.

One of the most amusing sights I know how to produce is the look on the face of a store clerk when:

A broadcast station's transmission line, the "coax" that connects the transmitter to the antenna, burns up. This line is copper tubing, usually 3" or 6" inner diameter. There's thousands of feet of it. When it burns up, the Teflon insulators inside it release all kinds of noxious fumes which fill the whole run up and contaminate even the otherwise undamaged sections of line. It comes in 20' pieces. So, to clean it, we use.... feminine hygeine products in the largest possible size they make, there's one particular brand that we know from practice works the best. I'll go in the local Kroger or Walgreens or something with a bunch of tower crew guys (who are ironworkers, and all look like the kind of people you wouldn't want to meet in a dark alley) and buy 2 or 3 entire shopping carts full of them. We all take turns thinking up good answers for when the (female) clerk asks us what we need so many of them for. Let your imagination wander! "I run a (house of ill repute) and ...." It's almost as much fun as humiliating Mustang drivers!!!

OBTW - I've used Jake's method before, though as I said with a dial indicator as my tool of choice; my preferred marker is usually a drop of that yellow junkyard marker paint. The dial indicator is not affected by parallax. You simply set it so that the tip sticks down into the cyl a little bit, turn the crank, and watch for the dial to go through indicating peak deflection and go back down as the piston passes through TDC. It's far quicker and more accurate than the piston stop method. For doing it with heads on, you just get one that the tip thing pushes from side to side rather than straight in and out.

------------------
"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

[This message has been edited by RB83L69 (edited February 22, 2001).]

 

LOL! No can do on getting my own...men have died here for less than that !