I am wanting to put a 400 small block into my 3rd gen as that would probably be the best power option out there.


I want a reliable 400 small block that can be used for everyday driving.

What are my options? Can someone post up what kind of a combo they have and an estimate on power and what was the final cost?

I would like to stick with TPI, I would try to do the best to get the most out of it or would a LT1 intake be the better option?? But I would prefer to stick with TPI as I have all the scanning tools (moates etc) or are there other Lt1 scanners that are free too out there?

But the easier option would be to stick with TPI and port it.

Am I better off buying a crate engine that is rated at 450-500hp (350ci) for like 4K or build my own??

My other option is to stick a blower on the 400ci but that might get a little too pricey and if I can get the 450hp all motor I think I would prefer it.

What kind of a cost am I looking at roughly just for the engine?

The trans would have to be replaced and most likely the diff too.

MIke.

 

im going for about the same thing
of course im going to build it if the block turns out to be worth while
i have a guy going to sell me one for 100 bux


i plan on going blown and as much performance parts i can afford on about a 500/mo budget going to be a long build but well worth it i hope

this is if the block is good of course

 

A blower is in my future...

 

If that is your goal, you better shoot for a blower or some form or forced induction. Those kind of power numbers when NA tend to lead to very poor street manners.

 

yup.

to hit thoes power numbers N/A the car would no longer be fun to drive "normally" on the street... it would eat gas, and the exhaust would make your eyes water when you're idling in traffic...


your best cheap option if you want that power and street manners is to build a solid 400 bottom end, and put a small roots blower on it... run a decient roller cam, in the 235* range, and let the boost do the work.

car will still pull vac and be totally streetable... but you'll have insane torque and power.

 

I am pulling those numbers in my 406. Here are specs:

406 iron block 4-bolt main, forged crank, forged rods, forged 10.5:1 dish pistons. Accel plenum, MSD 6200 ignition, mallory distributor, DART aluminum heads, crower hyd roller lifters, crower 1.6 roller rockers, hooker supercomp long tube headers, true dual exhaust with H-pipe, 2 chamber flowmasters.

Cam specs: Lingernfelter specific cut 219/219 @ 0.50 lift, Lobe center 112 deg, Gross valve lift = .525 w/ 1.5:1 rocker, the engine
has 1.6:1 (making the liftabout .560) Lobr lift .350 Int & Exh all numbers are the same for intake and exhaust.

I am using a Tremec 3550 so I can control the 'manners' in which the car has on the street better than a guy running an automatic with a high stall.

 

Run the 406 with the LT1 intake or a Stealth Ram manifold. The computer & sensors you already have will be reused. 450 or more streetable horsepower should be no problem with the right heads & cam.

 

sorry dude, but you arnt hitting 450-500RWHP with that setup.
heck your cam is smaller then mine... and i know i sure as heck wont hit thoes numbers without the blower on there.

 

I beleive the original poster was referring to flywheel HP, not rwhp.

 

Take a look at my sig...the only difference that I would recommend for you is to use a head with a bit smaller intake runner for maximum street manners...

Of course, I haven't had my car on the street yet either

I only wanted to buy one set of heads for the future so even though these heads are a bit too big for my current combo, they won't be for the next rebuild

 

Hey man Chevy High Performance built a 406ci small block using vortec heads with a pocket port and a single pattern full roller Lunati cam with 230degree Dur and .480" lift and got 500ftlbs and 430hp. But with a head swap (180cc AFR Alum) and Comp Cam Pro Magnum 1.6 rockers they got 490hp and 525ftlbs on 87 octane. If you want more info hit me up.

 

Im in that range but Ill neevr see the street again..
500-525 flywheel,,,,,the port work on these heads and intake is awsome

 

You're mistaken, but I am not going to argue with you over it. Try tuning your car before you hit the dyno next time, because cam size is not the definitive end-all when it comes to HP.

 

I'd like to see your dyno results showing your results Dzhezkov.

 

i think everyone would.
i just didnt want to be the first one to suggest it.


edit:
btw, we have very similar specs:

i also have a 400sbc.. DART heads, Crane solid roller lifters, Comp ProMag roller rockers, hooker supercomp long tube headers, dual cutouts

Cam specs: Isky 235/235 @ 0.50 lift, Lobe center 112 deg, Gross valve lift = .563 w/ 1.5:1 rocker, Int & Exh all numbers are the same for intake and exhaust.

 

I'd like to see those too. Real-world measured reality can sometimes be real humbling to those who live in Internet and Desktop Dyno world, or "I took a 240 HP motor and put on x that gives 30 HP, y that gives 20 HP, z that gives 40 HP, so now I have 330 HP" fantasy land.

In fact, if there was some way to enforce it, I'd love to see all claims banned from this board about how much HP somebody's personal combo puts out, unless backed up by dyno results or time slips with car weight. But that's asking too much, in the real world. But, I'd be more inclined to believe that sort of thing when posted by someone that has built mulitple motors for multiple customers and has a business reputation to uphold (although it's still no absolute guarantee of truth), as opposed to somebody that has only built (or more likely had built for him) his own one.

 

I'm setting up a dyno appointment now, though I've never been to this new place, I don't know if they'll let me run nitrous on their dyno or not. If not the dyno sheets will be next month when I go to Orlando.

 

Why use No2 on a dyno? Doesnt make sense. And cam size doesnt make the motor. Overall setup does. Just because you refurbished a set of heads and the spring rate is now .600" or if you buy a set of heads and the spring rate is .600" doesnt mean that if you buy some burly *** cam your gonna get 500hp. If your serious about 500hp bench flow the heads to find out its highest cfm at what lift then go select a cam that is in that area. But at the same time if your 200cc heads flow about 300cfm peak but at .750" lift chances are your not gonna buy a cam with that kinda lift. But a cam with a lift in the deep .500s, with heads like that is gonna get you very near 500hp.

 

not to be rude to you and everyone else here, but DUH!

however, look deeper into what i said.

we have very similar setups.
the diff being, im running a larger, solid roller cam. while it wont be as "streetable" as his its also not a huge cam. it goes rather well with my overall motor.



you guys really have to think some times.... its not like i just posted like one of the retard wannabes on the board and said i had a "279* .800 lift" cam.. i said we had similar motors with mine having a more performance orented cam and him having somthing slightly warmer then stock.



anyhoo, yes its the system that makes the motor...... everything works together.... blah blah blah... (insert other generic "DUH" engine comment here)

 

:hail: I'm glad RB is here to come out and say what everyone else is thinkin.. I really get tired of hearing claims of what peoples combos put out and what their cars run.. especially from all the import guys around here claiming to have 8 second street cars with their 4 cyl vtec's.. I won't even make a guestimate as to what my combo now puts at the wheels.. when it was in my yenko it put out 351hp and 371 ftlbs at the wheels but that was with different exhaust, tranny, and rear.. so now when people ask i just say something over 200hp..

 

YenkoZL1 you have the article of that buildup you are talking to? Going by the sounds of it 500hp (flywheel) is quite a big ask and does not come easily. Might have to ease up on the HP figures I am guessing and shoot for 400 which will most likely be much more easily achievable and not hurt the pocket too much.

I want that car to look stock don't want to cut the hood or anything like that to fit a blower on top of it. Would much rather prefer something like a paxton or vortech supercharger all under the bonnet.

Does anyone know of any engine builders that sell top qulity crate engines I could look at on the internet?? If you do know of any post up the links.

Mike

 

L03 170HP
Open Element +15HP
Cut out +15HP
New plugs + 5HP
New PCV + 5HP
New fuel filter + 10HP

Total
220HP

 

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine2.shtml

You asked for top quality.
These are way over budget for me, but a friend got one and he's happy with it.
They sell shortblocks too, if you already have heads.

 

I just wanted to add to the REAL WORLD numbers crowd. The real numbers can be quite amazing sometimes. I have about everything I can do to my poor 5.0 HO 84 Z28 and I ran a 13.8 @ 103 with full trim and all that. All my buddies were saying they thought I had around 270+RWHP... I was hoping they were right but it dynoed 228 at the wheels.

LOL


383 here we come...

 

With fuel injection and modern torque converters 500 FLYWHEEL hp out of a 406 NA is not out of the realm of streetable, hell your only talking 1.2 hp per cubic inch. Not saying it's cheap, but definitely doable. RWHP is another story.
Try this.
406 balanced and blueprinted
Forged internals with all the good stuff done
Definitley longer rods, not the stock 400 length.
Get the temp and friction reducing coatings on the pistons
AFR 210 heads set up for a cam similar to the one i list
10.5:1 compression
Comp Cams 12-770-8 Solid Roller cam, but ground with 114 LSA instead of 110 and 110 Intake centerline instead of 106 If you really wanna go for it get it on their new cam profile that swaps the 4 and 7 firing order.
1.6 ratio roller rockers, 1.5's will do
Stealthram/miniram/or LT1 intake.
headers and good exhaust, of course
Yank or Vigilante torque converter stalling between 2500 and 3000
Well built tranny to handle all the extra power
Well built rear end for the same reason (At least mid 3 something gears, I'd really say 3.73's - 4.11's)
Heavily modified prom, or aftermarket computer. TUNING TUNING TUNING
Pray to the power gods that you're machine shop is good, and whoever is progamming the computer is excellent
And Voila ... A streetable 406 with over 500 hp and 500 ft lbs of torqe at the flywheel
500+ at the rear wheels, no
Expensive, YES YES YES Can you say second mortgage?
Easy, Big NO
Maintenance intensive, Pretty Much (but after you've run the valves the first 5 or six times you get pretty quick at it)
Silky Smooth Idle, Heck NO
Copious Vacuum, Probably not
Really cool exhaust note, Oh YEah
Big smokey burnouts
11's in the quarter, Sure if you spent as much on the suspension and tires as you did on the engine (not really that much but you get the point)
Streetable, Sure thing and hellacious fun to drive ( until you put it in a ditch at 100 mph
Add nitrous and get really silly

Oh wait a minute you wanted a daily driver and totally reliable, well swap in a hydraulic rolller, slightly smaller, drop the compression to 10:1 and be content making real close to 500 hp and 500 ft/lbs. Hmm, that sounds just like a motor car craft built and got similar numbers.

 

I hope your kidding, cant tell. Anyways your last 3 dont add HP, they might recover some lost HP from the original 170, what about stickers?? lol.

 

So, Dzhezkov, how is that dyno coming along?

 

Only 228? Wow....was the car running the same times at the point when it was dynoed? That's a great trap speed for a 5.0 but that horsepower number is surprisingly low....unless you did some major gutting to that car!

 

dyno and track times were within a week of each other, stock trim/ full interior...
torque was like 265 I think. I wasn't very happy to say the least.

 

well my car ran 129.77 and race weight is 3700 lbs and the horse power calculator says i have 631 rwhp. with a 700 carb and 559 lift cam (oh ya a little 250 shot) heres the link to some useful calulators
http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/pontiacdude428/Hot.html

mike

 

lol, I was kidding.

 

Thats great. But you post no info in which to base your setup. You could be running a 13:1 compression ratio. monster cam that doesnt idle below 1500 (posting just the lift doesnt say much at all about a cam), add in a big blower or turbo setup. Aka-we need more info about your setup before we can say whether or not thats a feat.

 

400 block, 350 crank ,srp flat tops, 64cc dart 230 heads,11to comp., 252,260duration @.050, .541 .559 lift solid flat tappet cam, 700 holley DP, fogger nitrous system with 26 jets,pulling 8* of timing, through the exhaust, 4sp, 4.11 gears, 26x10.5x15 et streets . it idles at 850 to 900 ,power brakes and power steering work. and my wife drives it to work every day , if its not snowing.

mike

 

also the motor is back out because the deck of the block cracked, the block is just a pile of junk now.

mike

 

Yeah 8K does seem a little high hmmmm.

I'll keep all the info posted here for reference might build something similar to what rhuarc31 posted. But looks like i need to save some extra cash!

Mike