Ok, here's the dilemma. I had a 91 350 tbi from a cop car and am switching over to a tpi setup. We rewired everything to an 88 setup and everything looks good. I go to turn the key and there's no crank at all. All the wires are good, my friend jumped them out on the starter and the car started up. The timing and fuel pressure was a little low so it idled pretty bad...I had to keep feathering the throttle out to keep it going. Can you guys give me some ideas to check tomorrow? I have a multi-meter so I can shoot a lotta wires. Also, what is the security light everyone talks about when u try to crank it? I get an SES light when it's on and when I try to crank it the brake light comes on and the radio goes out, dunno if that means anything? Does the VATS disable the fuel injectors too? I know this is a lot of questions but I need to know any and all tests I can do for tomorrow. I know Trickster can definitely help on this one. Thanks in advance.

 

You should have 12 volts constant at the fat wire on the starter, and when cranking you should have 12 volts at the small purple wire on the solonoid. It grounds through the starter body.

VATS disables the injectors, and shouldn't allow a crank if it's operating properly.

IIRC, base timing on the TBI is 0 deg btdc. Make sure to disconnect the tan output wire on the module or the computer will be adjusting timing as you set it.

The security light is an actual "security" light in the dash, the SES serves a completely different perpose.

The radio is supposed to turn off for crank, it's part of the accessory circuit.

Good luck

EDIT: Just for kicks, you might want to do some VD tests on the charging and starting circuit. Shouldn't have anything more than 100ma drop on any wire. Anything more than that can contribute to alot of drivibility problems.

EDIT again: Just realized your doing a TPI swap. Base timing is 6 deg.

 

Hello Pat12spe,

Your security light is on the idiot panel to the left of the SES light. If the VATS is working porperly, it will come on for 2 seconds when you turn the key and go out. If there is a malfunction with the VATS, the light will remain on until you release the key and any further attempts to start the car with the key will be locked out for about 5 minutes. This is because the VATS control module must reset itself. Is there a pellet in the key? The brake light and SES light will come on as a normal function when the key is turned and remain on until the key is turned off. This is part of a bulb test in the system. Is this an 88 car or just the wiring from it? The trouble code for VATS is 46 for a TPI and 53 for a TBI.

 

Ok, it's actually wiring from an 88 tpi car. The car itself is a 91. Originally it was tbi and now it's tpi. I had a custom chip burned from brian at tpichips.com so there's no way VATS should still be on it. It's not VATS, otherwise the injectors wouldn't work right? When he jumped out the starter the engine sustained itself with the key to the on position. Yes there is a chip in the key and it reads 1.125 ohms I believe. I had an extra key as well that read the same and that one doesn't work either. Is there a way to test the starter relay? What about when I turn the key, can I shoot wires through that? Thanks again.

 

Yes there is a way to test the starter enable relay. Jumper pin "A" & "E" with a fused jumper wire. If the car starts with the key, replace the relay. From looking at the info given, I don't know if that is a manual or automatic. If it is an automatic, check wiring to the Park/Neutral switch. If it is a manual, check the wiring to the Clutch start switch.

 

Ok, what exactly does the park/neutral switch look like? It's under the shifter correct? This is an auto btw. What wires do I need to jump out on that? Thanks.

 

You won't be jumpering anything on the Park/Neutral switch. The wire at pin "A" on the starter enable relay goes to pin "F" of the P/N switch. There is a purple wire that goes from pin "E" of the P/N switch to the small post marked "S" on the starter solenoid. I mentioned that switch because if it is not adjusted properly, the ignition circuit to the starter won't close even if the VATS and everything else works. And yes, the P/N switch is attached to the shifter assembly. NOTE: The wire colors here may vary but the principle is the same.

 

Ok I jumped out A and E like you said trickster and the car started up. Fortunately, I am at a junkyard and I pulled off two more relays from junked firebirds in here but neither of them worked. I am thinking it may be the other wire in the circuit that is supposed to energize the relay. Is there any way I can check that one out? The odds of two relays not working are slim to none.

 

I am getting a constant 12v on C in the starter relay which means it's probably not getting a good ground on B (not labeled in the diagram). That either means the relays I have are bad or that the ground in the relay isn't working. Could I just cut the wire coming out of B and splice it into ground? I'd hate to fab something up, but if it doesn't hurt anything could I do that? I'm digging through every firebird and camaro in this junkyard to find those relays. Some are like the one in my car, others are a little different. I'd rather just cut and splice for now if that will work. What do you think Trickster??

 

Okay Pat,

Pin "C" will have the same voltage as pin "E" because they both come off the ignition switch under the dash. Pin "C" & "B" energize the solenoid in the relay when the right signal is received by the ECM and close the circuit between pin "E" and "A" which then sends power to the starter solenoid through the Park/Neutral switch. Pin "B" will be either a thin dark green wire or a thin black/yellow wire. I will E-Mail you.