ok, for the first time the car left me stranded, i was on the phone with the wrecker company when i finally got it to start.

I thought it was the starter or the VATS system, I went home and got my other key and the car did the same thing, no start, the temp gauge would move all the way over, the check engine light was on and so was the security light.

so i get a starter today and put it on, same freakin thing, no start, no start then starts a few times, i'm thinking i got a junk starter, so i get under it with a test light and check power to the solenoid, when the car would start, it was getting power, when it wouldn't no power. So i'm thinking ignition switch, so i take the test light to the switch and i have power everywhere, even on the wire that goes to the starter, i think it's the big tan wire, because when I hit the key it lights up, and none of the other wires do that.

I'm looking for my haynes manual to look for a wiring diagram. What is inline between that tan wire and the purple wire on the solenoid?

Is it a VATS problem, that's the only thing I can think of.

 

on a VATS car, there are two things(not counting a couple of connectors) that are in that circuit.

the VATS starter enable relay and the neutral safety switch(or clutch switch if manual)




btw, that Tan wire is Yellow

 

Dave,

I appreciate the quick reply, were is the VATS relay located? I need to check power on both sides of it to see if that's causing the problem. I think you are right, it is a yellow wire. That's what 4 beers, a shot of walkers deluxe, and hanging under a dash will do you. hehe.

Thanks
Jason

 

Is the security light coming on and staying on still? Have you checked your fuses? How does your pill look? That is very much overlooked.

 

behind the drivers kick panel

the wires are yellow in and green out

 

Well I'm not Dave but, the VATS relay you referred to is the starter enable relay. It is located behind the left kick panel on the driver side. It has four wires going to it, on different year models the wire coloring wil vary. There will be two wires coming off the ignition switch going to it at pin "C" & "E" and normally will be colored yellow. There will be a dark green/white wire going from pin "A" of the relay to pin "F" of the park/neutral switch. Pin "B" of the relay will be a light green or black/yellow wire and goes to pin "A3" of the VATS control module. Now that I have said all this and got you totally confused. You can test the starter enable relay by disconnecting it and jumpering pin "A" & "E" and trying to start the car. You can also check those two yellow wires at pin "C" & "E" for power with the key in the start position.

 

Trickster,

Thank you for that info, I will check that in the morning.

Jason

 

Same thing happened to my friend's 89 camaro.

One day he just kicked under the dashboard and it worked. He later found out that some fuses were coming loose. Check those too.

 

ok, I jumped A and E and it turns over but doesn't start, i am gonna assume that's because the relay is bad. IIRC there's a way to bybass this, but some people don't like to talk about it because it can lead to illegal theft of vehicles. If someone can point me in the right direction or PM me, I would appreciate it. I know I need to get a resistor, but I can't remember where to put it, or where to check to see which one I need.

Thanks

Jason

 

Same thing happens to my car. First, on occation the car wont turn over (Starter is a couple months old... so i dont see it fouling)) i have vats, but the light comes on and goes off as normal. I just turn the key and nothing happens.

And more recently, the car turns over but doesnt start. I try over and over. Once in a blue moon does it start. Cant figure it out.

 

Well, I pluged the relay back in, and jumpered the A and E terminals from the back, it started once, and that was it, now it just turns over, and the security light doesn't come on anymore. Did I fry something?

 

I have the same problem with my camaro. I replaced the starter and the neutral safety switch and it still doesnt start, it doesnt even turn or attempt to start. I still have power to windows radio and all that. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Did you adjust the neutral switch when you put it in?

 

I would love to hear more on this subject I am having the same problem right now! Lets here how you made out liljayv10! I hate deadend threads!

 

ttt, i don't know anything. It doesn't make sense why it started once and that was it unless i smoked something.

 

i thought that if you started the car with the ecm shorted it would harm the ECU. Your only supposed to turn it to the on position (just before starting). Look it up in the manual.

 

Paint it Blue...mine runs very well.

 

Im fed up, im just converting to carb. Selling tpi. And building up a fresh 400..

im getting an hei distrib, intake, carb for only 100 bucks, and the 400 core for like 200 (Shortblock).

 

That is true if he were jumpering the ALDL connectors. However, he is jumpering the connectors on the starter enable relay located in the left kick panel about 2 1/2' to the left of the ALDL connector.

 

Could be the 4rth Coors...but I still say paint it Blue and problems will go away

 

so any ideas trickster?

 

Hello jay,

PM or e-mail me with everything that you have checked and tried with your problem. My e-mail address is in my profile.

 

It's cranking but not starting? Fuel pump coming on? What do you have for fuel pressure? Does the security light come on at all? Can you still pull codes (ie to make sure the ECU isn't totally fried.)

I know you are frustrated, but your descriptions are somewht *****-nilly and not entirely clear. Take the time to overview the problem completely along with what you did in what order. You'll get a much better diag that way.

 

Recently i figured a way to get it to turn over by taping the theft deturrent relay open but then it stopped working that way. I think maybe if we run a wire from the bottom of the steering column stright to the starter we can bypass hte neutral safety switch, theft detureent and all that other bull ****. Im gonna attempt it soon and ill post back

 

the car turns over, the fuel pump is running i can hear it, the secuirty light does not come on anymore. It acts like it has no spark the way it turns over. I haven't had a chance to get back to it, i have been dealing with girlfriend problems lately and that has taken up most of my time and energy.

 

OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

well, still having girlfriend problems, i think i need to find me a new one with less drama. I'm to nice sometimes is what it is.

Anyway.

I went and messed with my car tonight, it's been going on three weeks since i have drove it.

I have a big yellow wire, coming from the ignition switch that has power when the key is turned, a small yellow wire that also has power to it when the key is turned, there's a small green wire that has power to it, ok pay attention to this part, the car won't turn over unless i have the test light on the small green wire, then the engine spins but doesn't start, i did that two or three times, then when i tried it again the starter would click once and that was it.

the big green wire which i think goes to the starter has no power to it when the key is turned, if i jumper the big yellow wire and big green wire the car will turn over, the first two times i did this the car started, after that it won't and the security light doesn't come on anymore. the fuel pump is running but it has no spark.

what did i mess up? I am lost on this one guys, this is not my area of expertise at all.

thanks.

 

The big green wire goes to pin "F" of the park/neutral switch and the small green wire goes to pin "A3" of the VATS control module. Disconnect the park/neutral switch and see if you get power to pin "F" on that connector when trying to start the car. You should have power to both those yellow wires.

 

ok, this is what i found

start enable relay;

big yellow, power when in start mode
small yellow, power when in start mode
small green, power when in start mode
big green, no power when in start

these are some of the things i have done,

jump big yellow and big green, with it plugged into relay, started once, now it won't start like that and the security light doesn't come on

when i was testing to see if the small green wire had power, the car would turn over, it did this 3 or 4 times, then the starter just clicked, now it does nothing.

 

You have e-mail Jay

 

my relay seems good becaus ei can hear it click...


my car is having the same problem, I turn the key and i get nothing.... all i hear is the click of the starter enable relay.

So far ive replaced the ignition coil, starter, solenoid, ignition module.negative battery cable, positive battery cable... im stumped....

 

just because it clicks doesn't mean the relay is good, might have bad contacts so there is no power out, check for power out w/key in the start position

 

the relay is good, ive had it tested...

it isnt the relay


im guessing its either the Neutral Safety switch, or one of the fuseable links...

 

I should let everyone know I did get my car started, it was the tumbler, the fancy expensive snap on vantage wouldn't read the ohms on the key, but I found an old multimeter that's probably as old as I am, and found it out. it was 2.3k ohms,

the interesting thing is this, i went to radio shack and got a 2.2k ohm and some 100 ohm resistors, i wired a 2.2k and a 100 in serious thinking it would be 2.3, wrong. the 2.2k was actually a 2.0k, so i had to put in 2 more 100 ohm resistors to acheive the 2.3k ohms that I needed. then it fired right up.

freakin GM and their better ideas, this ant theft system actually works better when it's broke than it does when it's working properly i think .

 

Well its great that you managed to bypass VATS. but one question. Your security light, did it come on for a few seconds then turn off like it should (Before it burnt out i mean) or did it stay on.

Im asking because im having a similar problem, my car only starts up part of the time. I cant figure out why. but my security light always turns off. But is it possible its still failing the test?

 

It's possible that you have a starter enable relay that is starting to go bad. It is located under the left kick panel.and looks like this.

 

my car still wont start...


it isnt the neutral safety switch i just checked tghat.... and i dont think its the starter enable relay because ive jumpered the a and E wires and that wont even crank it or turn it or anything..

so im guessing its one of the fuseable links im gonna have to check tomorrow... any other ideas guys?

 

ok... its neither the fuseable links, the neutral safety switch, the starter, coil, solenoid, or the power or ground cables...


how do you bypass vats if that is what it is...trickster any ideas?

 

quite the popular man trickster. Thanks for the tip, any idea how to test it out? or is it so cheap to replace even without checking.

 

BTW im having gf problems too. Maybe F-body starting issures has to do with our gf? anybody?

 

Hello HamSpiced,

You have a PM.

Verviticas, I tried to send you that info you wanted. Unfortunately, hotmail does not accept files above 1 MB. Give me another e-mail address if you have one, you can PM it to me.

 

Has anybody sugested that you check your ECM?
Autozone has these under $150
Mine died and my car would not start because your ECM controlls your injection and if it dies your injection will not work.

 

Same problem I have HERE and the car is WHITE ! I can manually hold the relay in down in the left kick panel and it will crank over but not start. Got to find out if there is any way to disable the VATS garbage. I honestly think that is the problem.

 

One of the more common problems with the VATS security systems in the third generation f-bodies is caused by a simple bad connection in the ignition cylinder. The problems start when the wires leading from the contacts in the cylinder to the VATS module develop an intermittent contact or a complete break. This can cause sudden failure to crank, either intermittently or permanently. Due to the nature of the system, manual transmission cars can t even be push started.
DIAGNOSIS:
The first step is to check the resistance of the chip in the key with a multimeter. Write this value down, you ll be needing it later. Next, remove the panel under the dash and look for a pair of yellow wires coming from the steering column and leading to a connector a short distance away. Unplug the connector and with the key in the ignition, measure the resistance at the wires leading from the steering column. The reading should match that of the chip in your key. While the reading might match while the key is in the off position, it will probably change when the key is turned forward. If this happens, the problem is in the ignition cylinder or the wires leading to it. At this point there are two options: Buy a new ignition cylinder and for alot of money or bypass the system for less than a dollar.

BYPASS:
To bypass the system you ll need to buy a resistor with a value matching that of your keys chip at any local electronics store. The easiest way to install this resistor is to cut the wires leading into the column about a foot from the connector. Take this section of wire, strip the ends and solder the resistor in place. Take this section of wire and resistor and simply plug back into the connector under the dash. The VATS module is now fooled into thinking that there is always the correct key in the ignition. Although this does render the security benefits of the VATS system useless, if increased security is desired, the resistor can simply be unplugged, leaving the car disabled until it is reinstalled.

 

Many thanks beasleybub. I will give it a try.

 

a friend of mine had a vats problem. He did as you suggested, but he didnt want to loos the security, so all he did was wire the resitor (which was VERY hard to find, theyre never spot on), to a switch that he hid somewhere within the drivers reach. this way, when he fliped the switch, the car would turn, but when the switch was turned to the off position, nothing happend. (+ the security light just stays on), simple system, Very cheap, and you dont loose your security.

 

If the neutral safety switch was bad, would the temp gauge jump to the high end when the key is turned to the start position ?