This is the post that shows where this problem started.


When we started the car, it sounds like it's missing on one cylinder or something. I figured hey it wont be that tough to ride it over to a shop so I can just get this fixed right? So I put it in drive, and the thing just BUCKS like I'm missing on half of the cylinders. When driving I feel it on the right side mostly where the buck is from (cylinders 2,4,6,8).

And when coming from idle, to about 1,000RPM there is a sorta metal-on-metal clanking. The aunt's boyfriend thinks that the flex plate on my AT went out. Or the flywheel broke or something.

Is this even a possibility? I mean, the thing ran like a CHARM before I tried putting these freakin plugs in lmao.

I do have a full tank of gas, and I have the firing order correct. Is there any way this could be a lifter or springs?

 

I tried to start it this morning and it would crank but it would not turn over.... but last night when it would start up w/o a problem, just seem to have this missing problem, it smelled pretty strongly of fuel... is there any way that possibly the new distributor cap is only giving off spark to some of the plugs? I'll try to put the old distributor back in after cleaning it off some, if it doesnt help anything it doesnt really prove anything though seeing as it didnt work with the old one anyways.

 

I'd suggest you go over the firing order a few more times.

I might add, make sure all the boots are securely on the plugs too.

 

Thanks, heading out to do that once more. Also, I read that if the length of the spark plug wires arent the same as factory, then it wont work well... could this cause my problem? I dont think that they are the same length, and I didnt really bother putting them in any specific order, just whatever seemed to fit the tightest

 

Ok, I took out all the plug wires, organized them by length, then put them back in very meticulously, to make sure they were in the right order. Cranked it, no change.

So I then took out all the new spark plugs (figured AC Delco probably werent recommended, so I put the old plugs back in. Then put the plugs back in one by one. Cranked it, no change.

I now have to get ready to go to work, and everyone's expecting to see the new car . I am about ready to give this up and wait till the magic car fairy comes by and waves her wand to make my car work...

If there is ANYTHING else I could check? Would a clogged Catalytic Converter cause my car to not fire up? I have run out of ideas.

 

I know it sounds dumb, but don't forget to check all of your fuses. I was looking to see if I could find if you had TPI or not, but the missing on one side really sounds like an injector fuse blew, maybe both blew by now. Of course, I'm sure you're running a carb setup and I'm an idiot lol. But be sure your fuses are good.

 

a broken flexplate will make ticking sound sort of like an exhaust leak at idle, its normally caused by a crack in it, you dont have a flywheel if you have an automatic.. so anyway lets start from the beginning.. what year is your car and what form of induction are you running on it?

 

It's a 1986 Camaro Berlinetta, 305 engine, carbed (factory Q-Jet).

How much does a flex plate cost? I replaced the clutch, flex plate and release bearing on my RWD truck a couple months ago, but all that came in a pack for about 90 bucks (had my teacher's discount). I'm guessing it would be considerably less?

Would a broken flex plate prevent me from starting the car as well?

BTW, thank you very much for responding, I breath a sigh of relief knowing that someone more knowledgable than myself is there to help.

 

mine bucks sometimes too....but its because i suck at shifting

 

Just trying to establish some grounds as well. So you drive the car around, runs fine, no problems. You go home or wherever you do the work, change the spark plugs, and suddenly it runs like this?

On a side note, inspect the flex plate. One of the more common places to crack is around the center bolt holes. A sinlge loose bolt will do it.

Do you know what rod knock sounds like? It kind of sounds like that.

Anyway, does it start up at all now? Or does it still not start? If it still doesn't start, can you hear the starter motor spinning, trying to engage? It IS possible, that if you had a crack that found it's way around the hub of the flex, COMPLETELY around, it would become 2 pieces and the starter wouldn't engage the engine.

 

I dunno...if it ran fine before you changed plugs, and now it doesn't run, I'd go back over my work.

Plug wire length makes no difference.

Just for the sake of arguement, the driver side of the engine bank is 1(in front),3,5,7 the pass side is 2(in front),4,6,8

Remember the rotor rotates CW... so if noone monkeyed with anything before, just to the right (facing the distributor) of center would be #1, then the next (going CW) would be #8. Then continue to follow the firing order to make sure it's correct.

 

FYI a flexplate and flywheel are kinda similar, on an automatic car the flexplate bolts to the back of the crank and the torque converter bolts to it, on a manual tranny car you have a flywheel instead which is quite similiar but has a flat machined surface for the friction disc in the clutch assy to mate with. Both have a ringgear around them that the starter engauged to turn the engine over.
If you really think its cracked or broken jack it up get under it unbolt the inspection cover over the converter, bring a flashlight and look for cracks etc.
The only way it would make your car not start at all would be that the crack made its way all the way around and it litterly broke off so that the starter can't engauge it. Does the car start intermittantly or not at all?

 

QUOTE:

Just trying to establish some grounds as well. So you drive the car around, runs fine, no problems. You go home or wherever you do the work, change the spark plugs, and suddenly it runs like this?



Yes, this is basically what happened. I bought this vehicle about 2 days ago, and I had no idea what maintenance he had done to the car so I decided to do most the regular, typical maintenance. Plugs, Plug Wires, Oil, Oil Filter, Air Filter, Distributor Cap, Rotor.

The car WOULD start last night after I found out that I needed to get a new distributor cap and rotor (though the car ran fine before I did the plugs and plug wires with the old cap and rotor).

After that I would hear what sounded like one piston knocking (or missing, same thing right?) at idle while in park. When I switched it over to drive (since I thought it was just set to too low of idle so it was no biggy), and I start putting my foot on the pedal (slowly, very slowly).

Then I hear what seems to be like half the cylinders are missing the correct fire time or something to that effect where they were non-operational. And when revving in park I would hear what sounded like metal clanking.

I have NO idea how changing my freakin spark plugs caused my flex plate to break, but that seems to be the issue. Currently my car is on the side of the road, and the road is sorta downhill, so I'll have to get a few buddies to help me push it into my driveway so I can jack it up and check to make sure it is the flex plate that is broken.


If this is the flex plate, does anyone have the GM# for it? Or know of a better aftermarket piece approximately the same price? And how hard would a flex plate be to R&R? Thanks again for the help guys, I appreciate it a ton

 

Gotta say it again, because you said it also...

The car ran fine

I changed the plugs

Now it don't run

(okay, I'm paraphrasing)

Gotta be the plugs you put in, or you messed up the firing order


KISS

Unless the car had a pre-existing condition, I don't see how a minor tuneup could crack a fle3xplate, but if you want to go ahead and change it....it's your time not mine

 

Mike, I completely agree. I dont understand how putting in new plugs could crack a flex plate either. I guess that it was a pre-existing condition, and it erupted when I got the car started after attempting to start it again (I'm guessing that there was a bunch of gas in the chambers since i tried to start it like 3 or 4 times before I went and got a new cap and rotor).

I went and got a new Flex Plate a couple minutes ago, cost me 60 dollars. The tranny fluid will probably cost me another 15 dollars.... 200 dollars in maintenance on this new-to-me vehicle within the past 2 days Oh well, I will hopefully have a very reliable car soon enough.

Maybe while I'm under there I'll see if for some reason my friend loosened the starter or something.

BTW, something I was wonder, since the starter technically is not turning the flex plate, does that mean that the crankshaft has not been turning either? So my timing is going to be all messed up?

 

Wow, I musta have majorly missed something here.

You're now saying that you turn the key and here a "BRRRRRRR", and that's it?

Okay, so the starter is not engaging the flexplate?

My guess would be the starter bendix has lost it's "ooomph", so you need a new starter, not flex plate.

You know you need to drop the tranny to replace the flexplate, right?

:::BTW, something I was wonder, since the starter technically is not turning the flex plate, does that mean that the crankshaft has not been turning either? So my timing is going to be all messed up?:::

No, timing, etc has not changed, weather you replace the starter ot the flexplate....regardless of weather the crank was turning or not, the timing is not affected.

You really sure you need to change the fleplate?...I gotta reread all the above posts again and see where this suggestion came from.

 

Okay, so I re-read everything, I SEE NO REASON TO GO AFTER THE FLEX PLATE AT THIS TIME.

It was a suggestion to the "ticking" noise, but should have absolutely no effect on how the car runs (per your "bucking")

I'd say take the flexplate back for now (unless in my re-read I totally missed smoe signifigant point) and concentrate on the plug wires for the time being.

I mean geez, if it ran fine before the plugs were changed, and now it doesn't...how the heck do you justify pulling the tranny to fix it?

 

Have you visually verified the cracked plate?

Anyways, no, a starter that doesn't engage cannot screw up the timing. Consider: The starter turns the flex, which turns the crank. The crank turns the camshaft via the timing chain. The distributor is then turned by the gear on the cam. So the dizzy cannot turn unless the cam turns, which cannot turn unless the timing chain snapped or the crank doesn't turn. And the crank can't turn unless the flexplate is engaging the starter. And timing can't be "off" unless the distributor turns a bit while the engine does not. Timing will be fine.

I think the "suggestion" cam from me. And it wasn't really a suggestion to get a new one. I said it is possible that it could be cracked. I think 89 kind of topped it off.

What were the "old" plugs? I'm sure you've gone over the wires by now a couple of times, reset the engine and dizzy to #1 tdc compression. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the metal on metal thunking.

 

I kow he said something like "my Aunt's sister's boyfriend..."...but this is what I'm basing my opinion on::

:::::Is this even a possibility? I mean, the thing ran like a CHARM before I tried putting these freakin plugs in lmao. :::::

Don't know what else I can say...sure, the flexplate could be toast, but so could the left front tire...but why would that cause it to run funky?

 

Stekman-

Have you visually verified the cracked plate?

What were the "old" plugs? I'm sure you've gone over the wires by now a couple of times, reset the engine and dizzy to #1 tdc compression. The only thing that doesn't make sense is the metal on metal thunking.




No I havent visually verified the cracked plate, but tommorow I am going to look at the starter to see if I happened to loosen it, or loosened a wire leading to it giving it a weak connection or something.

The old plugs are Bosch Supers, that's what it says on them atleast lol. I really have no idea what this metal on metal thunking is either. The old, and new plugs are the same length from the thread on. the connecting side of it is a bit longer on the AC Delcos (new).



8Mike9-

Okay, so I re-read everything, I SEE NO REASON TO GO AFTER THE FLEX PLATE AT THIS TIME.

It was a suggestion to the "ticking" noise, but should have absolutely no effect on how the car runs (per your "bucking")


I'm gunna hold onto this flex plate for the time being, and look at the car tommorow. It would really make alot of sense if the flexplate was broken, it just makes sense. What doesnt make sense is how this all started from changing the plugs I mean, wow lol. Though I do have a idea... while in Park, the aunt's boyfriend revved the motor pretty high (I wasnt at the tach, but I'm guessing maybe 5k, in park)... perhaps this just pushed it over the edge? Sorry I left that out before, I didn't think it pertained, guess it did

Is there any way I can check the flex plate without having to drain trans fluid, and coolant, and pulling the trans from the engine? I think it was mentioned earlier, but it confused me lol.

I really appreciate the responses guys

 

! get a repair manual to help you. !

exactly

man o man check your firing order it has to be off.

front of car

1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8


thats were your wires hook to the plugs.verify on the dizzy that your wires are in the correct firing order and that your #1 piston is tdc on compression stroke when the rotor button is facing the #1 wire on the rotor. after that verify again.

if your starter is not engaging then just replace the starter. i dont think you should waste time on the flex it didnt just all the sudden break after you changed your plugs and doesnt cause misfireing and bucking.

 

I have a Haynes manual, and the shop manual even. Basically I was coming here looking for ideas as to what this could be. I'm serious, the firing order is correct. I would send a picture of it, but it's too dark to take a picture right now, you'll have to trust me on this I guess lol.


In my Toyota truck there is an extra wire in the center of the distributor cap for the starter, I noticed that this car doesnt have one. Does the starter have any wires that I could have knocked loose by the distributor, oil pan bolt, oil filter, air filter, plugs, plugs n wires...

The starting portion of this is not necessarily what irks me the most, it's the clunking sound when the car did run that bothers me. I figured that it would make sense for the clunking sound if somehow the flex plate broke in half, thus the starter would not engage it, obviously.

 

omg man. thats for the coil wire.your coil should be built right into your cap.make sure its on right and hooked up right. you might want to read the section in that book about the ignition system an how it works.
the clucking could have possibly been more of a deisling sound from maybee bad timing i dont know but its possible. did you look at the flex plate yet to confirm?

 

pull the plastic cover thats under the car between the tranny and the motor get a light and see if you can see any damage.

 

92rs85berlintta, Thanks!! I am picking up a friend in about 10 minutes so he can come over and help me move my car into my driveway and up the ramps so we can work on it. I'll come back whenever I get through it

 

Okay, she runs! This the deal hehe... We got it in my driveway, and could no for the life of us push the car up the ramp.... so we get my family to help, we couldnt either... in this my dad gets frusterated, takes the keys from me, turns the ignition and just starts slammin the gas, and for the love of ***... it started right up!

So I guess lesson from this is ---- ACDelco = teh suke. So I went and got some good, reliable Bosch plugs, and it is all good now there.

Then after driving for a while, I noticed that it's starting to smoke up So I drive it home, pop the hood, not a whole lot of smoke, but enough to be noticeable coming from around the driver's side headers. I look under the car, and see a bit of oil dripping, BLAH!

Was thinking, and I put 5W-30 in the car, 5 Quarts. I'm thinking that the oil might have gotten so thin from the heat that it started dripping out of the oil pan gasket. I know this probably means that I need a new oil pan gasket, but at the moment I am feeling particularly poor lol, so it shall have to wait... instead I went out and got 6 quarts of 10W-30.

I didnt chain the oil filter this time around though, since the filter only had like 6 miles on it (didnt think it would hurt anything, PLEASE tell me if I am wrong in my assumption though!)

Ran the car around the block with the 10W-30 after letting it heat up again for 2 or 3 minutes, no oil leak, I'm guessing that I'll have to drive it into town to really figure out if it's leaking again.

I want to thank everyone who helped me out with this whole problem, I really appreciate it, even if the advice wasnt what helped, it was definetly the motivation, go team ThirdGen.org :hail:

 

Probably the oil filter not on tight enough, making a good seal, or sometimes the old seal sticks on, making 2 when you change the filter. Seen that a couple of times.
Most likely, the ACDelco plugs were the worng plugs for the car. I used to run AC's in my 83, and they worked just fine.
Still puzzled about the noises though...

 

Yea, me too. Any indication yet on the loud clunking?

That's not the kind of noise to be left un attended to.

 

you'll get that alot round here from most of us