Tibo

iTrader: (15)

First you need to re-read the thread as it covers lots of what you need. Then and read the threads from LS swaps.

Thornburg

Howdy all, so has anyone ever done an LS swap WITHOUT problems???? I would love the technology, but not at the cost of constant problems. Also do I need to take some tech classes to learn about LS technology, as it seams everyone needs to get professional help with tuning once the swap is done. I don't mind sending the ECM but don't know anything about tweaking with a laptop, With an old school SBC there is no guesswork.

Arctic White 91 RS

400 SBC vs LS1?

My vette has a custom built Dart 400 SBC with the 4.125 bore. Its an excellent engine. The Demon carb sucks. Fuel injected would be much better than carb for my ideal of fun and on equal terms of enjoyment to a fuel injected LS1. The Dart 400 gets 14.5 mpg normal driving and 16.8 mpg highway not too bad for a 400 with a carb. The carb frequently needs tweaking depending on the weather. I've learned to hate carbs other with a passion


My T/A's heads & cam LS1 is way more fun above 4000rpm than the vettes Dart 400. 27.5 mpg highway. No carb to mess with. Much better overall in my opinion.

I wish I had put a fuel injected big cube 427 LS in the vette instead of the Dart 400 with a carb. Getting weight out of the car helps the fun to drive factor in my opinion and seals the deal for the LS.

Based on my experience owning a 72 vette with a carb for like 30+ Years. Engine best engine the newer model LSx like the LS7 or LS3 or similar, next injected SBC, carb last choice.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What "problems" ?

Everything has problems. Almost every aftermarket part on my thirdgen conflicted with another part.

-- Joe

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

My '75 vette has a AFB carb. It actually runs really nice. It's a car that I drive once a month, so putting EFI on it doesn't make any sense.

On my race cars/daily drivers all EFI

-- Joe

B4Ctom1

Without any problems.. hmm.

Has anyone ever put a set of headers on a stock thirdgen without problems?
Has anyone ever converted a EFI thirdgen to carb without problems?
Has anyone ever put a 5.7 TBI/TPI engine into a 5.0 TBI/TPI thirdgen without problems?
Has anyone ever converted a V6 thirdgen to V8 without problems?
Has anyone ever made 400 hp in front of a stock T5 and 7.5" 10 bolt without problems?

The thing is, that the only part you have to replace on a thirdgen to make it a solid performer is the "everything".

Sure, you can start with a solid 5.7L car, swap out the intake, cam, converter, exhaust, and have a solid performer. But without problems? Every major thirdgen project has problems. If it didn't, it would be a 5.0L mustang. We learn so much while working on these problems. If we didn't, we would be Ford guys.

How do I know this? Well I have never owned an 86 or 88 thirdgen, only those years. But I have the rest of the years. But I have built over a dozen 5.0L Mustang drag cars. I have only built on 4 thirdgens where we replaced the "everything".

Babbys first LS recipe:

• Find a 2WD 5.3L truck/van engine, trans, wiring harness, ECM, sensors swap the tail housing to a late 4th gen (6 bolts, 5 minutes)
• Go to the one place that makes brackets cheaply for the swap I know of http://www.kwikperf.com
• Buy engine swap motor mounts
• Send the harness to a rebuilder that removes all the extra wiring or do it yourself using youtube
• use the stock fuel system plumbed for early engines and plumb in GM part # 10299146 or AC Delco # GF822 for late returnees style
• Get one of the various laptop/programmers to turn off all the extra stuff in the computer
• get the right exhaust manifolds and have it put onto your exhaust
• without adding any performance parts, make more power than any thirdgen short of a few SLP fire hawks ever came with ~300hp.

Optionally: add a smallish turbo or small amount of nitrous to start making insane/race car levels of power

Quoting this for posterity and painful truth

Also seconding that there is no reason to EFI things that are running fine with a carb already.

Thornburg

I understand that most swaps have challenges, but challenges should not take more than a weekend to figure out. I have swapped a few motors in Cutlass bodies, and never ran into any of the problems listed with an LS swap. Once the Oldsmobiles were up and running they stayed that way. I seem to come across post after post after post about LS swaps that have random ghost problems and the it takes several teams of engineers to figure out that one of the parameters are off in the computer and the guy is without a car for an entire summer.
I think if I go to an LS it will be in a 2000 or newer Firebird, you can't go wrong with factory for reliability. Power is nice, but I have found once you deviate from factory you loose reliability. I just don't know if I have what it takes to tackle these issues, who knows what the future will bring though...

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The LS swap is so documented it's not even funny. We've got 10 years of forum data telling you exactly which conversion mounts to buy, which headers to buy, which accessory brackets to use, what coolant hoses to use, what TPS cable to use. If someone has a challenge it's simply because they failed to read the instructions laid out by the guys who did it without any direction, and documented every step of the way.

As far as the electronics go, if you can't tune an LS motor using the newer tuning software then this hobby isn't for you. The old days of using a hex editor, burning proms, swapping chips, using crappy ALDL software that crashed regularly - THAT was difficult. The obd2 stuff is not.

LSx swaps are easy. You wanna see a challenge, look at some of the turbo builds that have been popping up on the power adder forum the last two years. Tell one of those guys an LSx swap is hard, and you'll lose your man card for life.

-- Joe

B4Ctom1

This is perception based on anecdotal observation.

I mean, it was a problem back in 2000-2003 when people were breaking new ground.

Today, the swap is down to a step by step science, and almost pedestrian in simplicity.

Thornburg

Hey All,
I am sure those that have been exposed to the swap understand it better than I do, perhaps it is just the fear of the unknown I guess. Just like I had no issues with HEI on my other cars, my elders wanted nothing to do with it, so times change and I must change with them. My old professor once said.."If your not going forward...you will continue to go backwards"
Perhaps on a future project I will tackle the swap. I hope I have not offended anyone about this topic. Thanks for sharing everyone.

B4Ctom1

Don't forget that the adversity encountered working on something brings knowledge. Our Great Grandfathers and Grandfathers knew this. Can you imagine what it took to make 300hp out of a Flathead Ford with nearly zero aftermarket? In one water cooled block that is roughly the equivalent of 8 Briggs and strattion motors running?

antman89iroc

Ok just to chime in, I built a 414 SBC EFI for my 89. Like any other major change out yeah there have been a lot of things to work out. Some were mandatory but others were by preference. In the end I have a pretty good running ride.

Building a SBC from ground up vs LS isn't really that much difference in cost but the SBC combo to get to the LS performance level is not nearly as well manored and drivable. I have regretted not going with an LS but that's in the past. IF I were starting over from scratch I would go LS all the way.

If I add up everything for the engine, tranny, fuel system, ECM, exhaust etc I probably have around $15,000 in a Dart/AFR 414 with TKO trans. Could have done a great LS for just a little more.

If you are just going with a mild performance upgrade then it's not worth it but if you are looking for a powerful, streetable combo the LS probably can be beat in value. If you don't want the "headaches" then buy a new Camaro, it's all sorted out. As far as the old days, well they're the old days.

Thornburg

Thanks for sharing your experience Antman... I'm not quite ready to drop 15K into a motor and drivetrain. So little by little upgrade options, unless I can talk the wife into a SIXGEN...

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

LS7 runs in the $15K neighborhood.

B4Ctom1

Doesn't an LSA and trans too? Like "Take Outs"?

427seven

Who said arguing never solved any problems? Looks like it solved this one..... Ended the thread.