okie doke guys, I promised in my other thread to get some pictures, you can all thank Stekman for hosting the pictures for me... and you can cry along with me at these bearings

















These are all for the rod bearings, next up is the mains

 

iunno what happened to the other one, but it wasnt that bad looking either.

The mains arent very bad at all... compared to the rods atleast.

 

Mommy

 

you can say that again lol..... going to get quotes for getting my crank machined next day off. LOL

 

you made out pretty well, my last spun bearings where nothing more than slivers and shards of metal

 

Worn out, sure. But spun? I still see the little locating tabs still in tact on all the bearings. If they were spun they would be long gone as the bearing spun around on the saddles and knocked them off. Maybe the pictures aren't clear enough for me to see it correctly.

Worn out bearings is a lot less work and money than spun bearings, beleive me. Here's hoping they didn't actually spin on you.

 

Yep, its a good thing you decided to look into that.

Now for the cause. You still arent sure the oil pump was bad, it probably wasn't, the oil press loss was probably due to worn bearings, but maybe not.
I'd suggest taking apart your old pump, for one thing, and find out if there's something wrong with that.
And after that inspect the entire lubrication system, it might be something like a soft plug in one of the oil gallerys that loosened up, or a loss of the seal somewhere on the main cap.
You might have spun a rear cam bearing and lost a bunch of oil press through there.
... Just a few ideas.

I hope your engine isn't still in the car

 

believe me, spun.... I can tell by all the "metal sand" in my block at the moment that I'm gunna have to rip the valve covers off and magnet all around there and get as much as i can out.

I've got one piece of these metal sands in my thumb right now, hah... now I've got a question... I recently acquired a power washer... would I be safe spraying my bottom end out with it? I'd imagine it wouldnt be more harsh than sand blasting or bead blasting?

 

yes, my engine IS still in the car lol... I have no ways to get an engine out of my car. And currently I dont have the cashflow to buy a engine hoist and engine stand unfortunately.

It really isnt that hard to work on the car like this.... just getting the oil pan off with the engine still in the car is the hard part lol. I'll definetly be cleaning out all passages for oil that i can get to, as a primary objective to get all the metal shards out, secondary objective to clean it up lol.

I really hope it's not a cam bearing because then I WILL have to take the engine out of the car, and if that's the case I'll just push my car off a cliff

 

why dont you just go rent a hoist for the day and gather a couple buddies up for a quick pull.......

 

I'll second that.
Engine stands are pretty cheap. And you can use a tree or the frame of your garage door and a come-along to pull the thing out.
The labor you save in reassembling the engine and the assurance that you've done a quality job will make it worth it. Believe me.
I've done in the frame rebuilds, and with your crank removed what you'll really be doing is unnessecarily compromising the integrity of your rebuild and leaving the door open for the same thing to happen again.

Also, none of the bearings shown in the pics are spun. There can be other sources of grit in your block besides spun bearings.
A spun bearing is a bearing that rotates within the bearing shell.
Those bearings are oil starved.

 

if not a chain hoist then an cherry picker ...

 

i agree that taking the engine out would be ideal, it's just not in my budget, if I was going to take the engine out, I'd swap the bottom end with a 350 block from a junkyard, and I wouldnt have to deal with the bearings issue at all... boy wouldnt that be nice.

But simply put -- I cant. None of the shops around here rent out engine hoists, and I'm not going to go drive an hour away to get one, just so i can drive an hour back to return it, then do it all over again when I need to put the engine back in lol

I'm curious as to how doing the crank and bearings while the engine is still in the frame is compromising the integrity of it though. If that's truely the case then I'll have no other choice. This is something I dont ever want to do again on my car... I've been trying to do a quality, non-hack job with it thus far, with the resources that I currently have (thus not taking the engine out).

Where else can this metal-grit come from if not a spun bearing ...? I labelled the ones that would freely spin inside around the crank journals between rod and cap, I figured that a freely moving bearing = spun?

I'm still learning so all help is appreciated, espescially clearing up my vocab lol.

 

If you have rod bearings that were spinning inside the rod, then the rods are smoked. Looks to me like the top 3, fit that description: they're chewed up so bad by the bearing tangs, they might not even be repairable. That means they need to come out. That means the heads need to come off and the pistons need to come out and the rods pressed off of them and then re-worked or replaced. And that means you'll also need new rings. And that means that it probably makes the best sense to get the block bored, so you have a fresh surface for new rings; which of course requires piston replacement.

And, you'll find that every oil passage in the block is full of metal shavings, most especially the groove behind the cam bearings; and if you don't remove the cam bearings and clean all of that out of there, then the very first time you start up your new motor, all that debris will get flushed right straight into your brand bew bearings, and you'll ruin another crank in the first 30 seconds of running, and be right back where you are now. So, the cam bearings need to come out and be replaced, in addition to the cleanup.

If you can do all that without removing the block from the frame, go for it.

Meanwhile, if this is a 305, it makes no sense whatsoever to spend all that money on it; go get a 350 core, and spend your money on that. You're going to have ALOT of money in this by the time it runs again; might as well sink it all into something good, instead of something inadequate.

 

that sounds like a good enough reason to me to go rent a picker....

9 times out of 10 when you have bearings go like those your going to have alot of shavings inside of the entire block like RB83L69 said also....

 

wow, I didnt think it was that detailed... I figured I could keep the pistons inside the block and re-attach them when I had the new crank machined. I planned to go through all the oil passages and clean them out (though I probably wont be perfect).

But you guys know a hell of a lot more than I do, and going to a junkyard and grabbing a 350 block w/ bottom end keeps sounding better and better. I would probably just tow the car to a shop where I know a guy, have all the prep work done already, just take out the old engine, put in the new block w/ bottom end, tow it back to my house, and put all the pieces back together...

As it stands right now I'm just trying to get the crank out, I've got everything but the flexplate off before it drops. So I'll need to figure out soon which would be the best route to take.

Talking to Stekman, he said that that 010 casting for blocks were probably the best stock with highest nickel content and a decently solid bottom end. This sounds pretty ideal.

I realize I can get a bare block for something like 100 dollars, probably 300 if I buy it from a machine shop that's been prettied up. I dont mind spending money on my car, but the more I have to spend, the more down time I'll have because I can only put so much of my paychecks toward it lol.... and i want to drive it dangit lol...

But if I rush things then I'll just be right back to square one, so it's a hard battle for me to get myself in order if anyone else can relate to this madness....

Anyways, thanks for the heads up RB and General, I am definetly taking it into consideration and will be doing a bunch of price-scoping for 350 blocks.... maybe now would be a good time to get that LT1 started up that I've been dreaming of since before I even got the car lol.

 

I also said that for the power outputs you probably have planned, any old 350 will suffice. Whether that be a high nickle or not, 2 or 4 bolt mains. Probably won't matter.

 

that's true heh, but chances are all the Gen 1 SBC 350's will cost the same, so why not get the better of them, for the same price I'm not hell-bent on it though lol... next day off is my call around to see if they'll use lube on me when i get raped for prices.

 

Just buy a new foldable engine hoist.

$200 Autozone. Chinese disposable. Probably half would be covered by towing costs alone.

 

I got AAA Plus, got 4 tows that I havent used yet. but I'll look into that 200 dollar engine hoist.

 

so your telling me theres no where in your town that rents hoists? I live in a hick town and there a tool rental shop 2 minutes from me and half a dozen others. 20 dollars and an hour to get the block out, 15 minutes to drop it in with helpers.

 

Yep, that's what I'm telling yah. I live in the suburbs, and the nearest place that rents out engine hoists is an hour away.... of course there's a Advanced Auto about 10 minutes from my house that sells them, but has no rented version, funny how that works?

 

I must be going blind. I don't see a spun rod bearing, and I only see 7 rod bearings.

But, if RB sees it, I'm fine with that.

 

Do you have a garage?
If you do, buy a come along and screw the biggest screw hook that you can find into your garage door frame and use that as a lifting point. Then when your engine is high enough to clear, just push the car back til it's out of the way.
That's worked for me numerous times.
You might want to get a long 2x6 and lag screw that onto the top of the garage door frame if you feel like playing it safe. Also if it seems shaky, you could remove the heads before lifting it.
I actually like using a come along for pulling an engine because you're right there close to the engine while you're lifting it and it's nice and slow, so you can see if there are any parts that are hanging up.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ayphotohosting

 

Five7, you know, I didnt knotice that I only posted 7 of them, You can tell that I have all 8 out from the top pic though lol... thanks for pointing that out.

Streetiron85 thanks a lot for showing me that, and going into so much detail on that... I am thinking that my dad would love to build that, he's a "add useless crap to the house guru" lol.

So because of the descriptions of what you guys (espescially RB) has said I can definetly tell it's going to be cheaper to get me a 350 block and have some machining done to make sure it's in proper working order.... either that or I'll try to find a LT1, forget AC and it'll basically be a direct bolt in (plus a little wiring headache). Now I have to see which will be cheaper.... 350 block w/ bottom end from junkyard and have it machined out, or a LT1 that I check the bearings to and replace the oil pump and drop in.