I have been in the hot rodding for years and never heard of this?

i have been working almost 75 hours a week, and haven't had time to surf tgo or even start the maro anyway

I have 5 days off and decided today to change all my fluids, oil, supercharger, power steering, brake, antifreeze, rearend, tranny, filled batteries.......

I kept everything the same BUT:

Went from Type F in 700r4 to Trickshift

Changed from 20-50 Valvoline Racing to 10-40 mobile one

Changed from type F in supercharger to trickshift (I used to have a line running from S/C to tranny but I took it off a few months ago)

Here is what i have noticed:

Easier starting, oil pressure went from 52 at idle to 37-40, and goes back to normal at WOT

Supercharger whines MUCH louder, but does not have that "OVERSPIN" sound like it did with type F... I know it is not recommended to go syn, but I did becaues many have had good luck. It FEELS faster, I don't know if it is for sure, but it def. feels smoother.

RPM dropped 200 at 70mph over previous.

Rear main leaks like a bit## now.

Tranny shifts a lot harder, and I even chirp 3rd now

No rearend noise

IDLE RPM is smoother, no bouncing like has happened in the past.


Anyhow, it feels so much different that I honestly couldn't believe the difference.


I usually only change one thing at a time, but changing all at once really makes a difference.

Anyone else experience or have any comments?

 

Why were you running 20W50?

 

I have always used it as my summer oil

 

So it wasn't for increased tolerances? Your engine I guess. :shrug:

Easier starting should be correct theoretically. You don't have the drag of that heavy *** oil in there now and it's probably not fighting too hard against the bypass in the filter on startup, which is good as your oil will now begin to filter sooner. Oil pressure dropped for the same reason.

For the Type F change, not sure, I never got really into depth with the trick shift stuff. I'd assume that it has a few different and/or an increased amount of friction modifyers in it. Not sure on the detergent qualities though. Do they recommend using it in cinjunction with ATF or is it a stand alone ATF oil?

Synthetic is really good at finding any 'holes' as the molecules are a wee bit different.

 

I hate fixing rear mains, takes too long

I dont know exactly why I have used 20-50 for so long, the guy that taught me the basics used 20-50 in his engine for a summer oil and changed to 10-40.

I think I'm going to use 10-40 year around now, I honestly can't believe the feel of the car now, honestly i thought something was wrong when I was driving it...just felt too good to be true.

 

I wouldn't even bother with the 10w-40. Not after the alleged problems they had with that weight a few years back with the dino. 10W-30 usually is enough on synth.

 

/\

elaborate

 

There are a larger number of viscosity modifiers (some type of polymers if I remember correctly) in 10w-40 to achieve the wider viscosity range. As miles and hours tick away, oil in an engine is subjected to heat and shearing forces which break these viscosity modifiers down. As they break down, they change (narrow) the oil's viscosity range.

10w-30 doesn't have as many, so the oil's viscosity changing capabilities/range don't break down as quickly.

It's been awhile since I read about all this stuff, and I have it somewhere, but if I remember correctly, these viscosity modifying polymers are like little coils. They coil up and stretch out according to temperature. When the oil is cold, these polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow more freely. As the oil heats up, the polymers unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. So, at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number. As these polymers are broken down, the oil's ability to adapt is reduced. In the case of 10w-30 and 10w-40, 10 is the base viscosity of the oil, and the range to 30 or 40 is supported by the viscosity modifying polymers. As these polymers break down, the oil's ability to reach viscosity numbers higher than it's base is reduced.

See: http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_oil.htm

That page also claims that "The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range ... The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best."

I know it says synthetics excluded, but I play it safe and use 10w-30. I don't know for sure whether or not Mobil1 uses modifiers in some of their synthetics. The page above says that they don't in their 5w-30 (and perhaps their 10w-30). I also says that AMSOIL does however use some in their syn. 10w-40 and 5w-30, but not in their syn. 10w-30 and 15w-40. I wonder how the oil companies formulate synthetic oil so that it doesn't use viscosity modifying polymers...

Anyhow, personally, I have no reason to use 10w-30 any way. It never gets over 95-100 around here in the summer (I can't remember what the upper temperature limit is for 10w-30). Winter can get cold (-20F for a week or more), but Mobil1 10w-30 has a pour point of -65F.

 

Type F and Trickshift do not have a friction modifier in them (ame thing as posi additive). Dexron III, Mercon and the like do have the modifier. I haven't tried non-modifier ATF in a TH700, but my brother did in his 4L60E and it didn't like it at all. I'm using AMSOIL Supershift in the TH400 in the '57, it's fine with that.

Hard shifts are not necessarily a good thing. Firm, non-slipping shifts are what you really want.

Careful on the blanket statements about AMSOIL. They don't share a lot of their formulation secrets, but what they do say is their motorcycle oils don't have friction modifiers. Previously, they have stated their 0W-30 does use a VI improver, but the information they have on their website currently doesn't have such specifics. There are also different qualities of VI improvers available, just as there are different qualities of synthetic out there. The typical synthetic doesn't need as much, if any, VI improver to provide the multiviscosity characteristics.

For a supercharged/turbo application, I'd use AMSOIL 10W-30 or HDD 5W-30, as they are formulated specifically for shear stability in those high-heat applications. If I wasn't using AMSOIL, I would use Mobil 1.

 

Gawd... I wish for that in my car. I've added the Lucas No-Slip additive to the tranny fluid to no avail.

That said, is it pretty much a foregone conclusion that I am just dealing with transmission wear at this point? Would Trickshift be something I should consider for my next trans fluid change?

I'm tried of the 1-2, 2-3 flare up at high RPM between shifts

 

Thanks for the clarification, and I didn't mean to make any blanket statements about AMSOIL, I just meant to point out what was stated on that page. Sorry!

I kind of thought that was probably the case. Synthetic is pretty good stuff! I've been really happy with the Mobil1 10w-30 I've been using.

 

Ah, gotcha.

That page is a little outdated. The current API spec is SL, for instance.

The only AMSOIL engine oil that I have heard them say they use VI improver in is the 0W-30, and they don't even say that on the website. Of course, they don't tell me everything they're doing...

That link has a good piece of information regarding viscosity and assigned number. Note that an 80 weight gear oil is about the same thickness/viscosity at 100 degrees C as a 20 weight engine oil. They still goofed up putting the "W" on the gear numbers, though, because that designates the cold temp viscosity...

 

Oh, guess you're right, it is. Heh, never noticed the W in the gear viscosity numbers.

You seem to be really knowledgeable when it comes to oils and lubricants, do you work in the industry? I was wondering if you have some really good information, articles, places to find information, etc. on the net that you could post some links to? I've done some reading here and there (such as above) in an effort to learn about and choose better lubricants for my cars, and I would love to have some more information from someone who knows their field.

Thanks!

 

I use AMSOIL products, so to get them at a better price I've been an "independant dealer" since 1983. They send me a monthly magazine with information about their products and the industry, and I ask questions of the guy from whom I actually get the product, who is retired and can spend more time getting even more information. Sites like the one you linked are also good for getting information you don't see in the marketing literature.

And, I've been set straight on more than one occasion here on TGO...

 

Ah, I see.
Well, if there is any good information you can think of, let me know (even PM or e-mail). I'd appreciate it.

I've been using Mobil1 10w-30 in the cars for a year now after doing some research on the 'net. I feel like it is an excellent synthetic oil, and it's availability is a big plus. I've thought about AMSOIL and RedLine now and then (local parts store carries RedLine), but I have not read as much about them. I was wondering, having a decent knowledge of AMSOIL, and oil in general it would seem, what's you opinions on AMSOIL vs. Mobil1 - both your technical opinion and "feeling" about them. If it's too much trouble, don't worry about it. Any thoughts on RedLine as well?

Thanks.

(Side note: One of the biggest reasons I switched to synthetics is, of course, to take advantage of it's superior quality and capabilities. Since the switch, I've been running Mobil1 10w-30 in both the '94 S10 Blazer (4.3L) and my '89 Camaro. I change the oil and filter every 6000 miles, and change the filter and 0.5-1 qt. of oil every 3000 in-between each oil change to freshen it up. (0.5 to 1 qt. of oil is from replacing the oil in the old filter, plus whatever the engine may have used up.)
The reason I've settled into this oil change schedule is due to the fact that synthetic is supposed to have long life, and Mobil1 costs twice the price of the Valvoline 10w-30 I was using. Since I am using the oil twice as long now, the price of oil changes now vs. before is about the same, and I get the added benefits of synthetic.)