I went into the auotpart store the other say and went to buy new bosch platinum 4 spark plugs. Well right before check out the one guy who works there came over to me and the salesman and said dont buy those. You should never put anything platinum in your car(he has a camaro like mine too). H said he melted his wires and all to the block, and he then sold me NGK V groove spark plugs which were 2.55 a pop. Now was he yanking my chain or is this true?

------------------
87Camaro RS
305 carb.
K&N air filter
HyperTech Stage II chip
160 Thermostat

 

Yank, yank, although I didn't think they were worth the money, I did run the +4's in mar car for a few years w/o problem.

 

That moron is yanking you for sure.

Most all newer cars come from the factory with plat. plugs.


------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R
and 2 POS commuters...

R.I.P. #3
"He can see air"

 

For a stock motor they are fine.. I used to run them before my rebuild.. The only problem with the Plat is that the tips do run very hot & could cause premature detonation..

 

I don't like them at all. I think a lot of that new stuff is more hype than anything else. I run tried and true AC Delco and have no probs at all. I have tried a couple of the the so called miracle plugs and they suck. Hey remember Split Fire Plug. Cost way to much and doesn't do anything for you!

------------------
91 Z28 Camaro
305 TPI
Flowmaster 3" exhaust
700R4 with 2000 Stall and shift kit 3.42 rearend
Autometer shiftlight tach and B&M mega shifter
One sweet sounding system

 

I agree with you purpleworm...

I don't spend the money on super plugs (especially split fires !!) but I just did a test with double platnum autolites (about 6 bucks a plug) and this is what I did....

I installed NGK "V" groove plugs in my 99 TA with 10,000 miles on the car and drove to Oregon the next morning, I got a bad of 20 and a best of 22 MPG on the 400 plus mile trip.

I just installed a set of autolite DP at 20,000 miles and did the same exact trip, went the same exact way the follwing morning.

Got a bad of 23 and a best of 27 MPG.

Take this for what you will, nothing was changed except the oil between these tests. I always use the same gas (chevron) and I drive the same way every trip.

Just some food for thought.....

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R
and 2 POS commuters...

R.I.P. #3
"He can see air"

[This message has been edited by Engineboy (edited June 13, 2001).]

 

i always thought NGK and Denso were a better import plug, correct me if i'm wrong

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Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

I have a question. Does a spark plug with more than one terminal work better? Here's how I figure it. I know a thing or two about electricity. Electricity goes to the path of least resistance. So wouldn't the spark on a Bosch 4+ go to one terminal...and whenever that one gets fouled it goes to the next and so on? So wouldn't this just extend the life of the spark plug?

Matt

[This message has been edited by Golden80 (edited June 13, 2001).]

 

yup, it does..

plugs are pretty common argument on here.. i would presume the +4 Bosch plugs would last longer but some guys argue that they can hurt some HP by preventing the spark from ignition the mixture efficiently.

i have no idea, i run Rapidfires in all my cars and they run like tops.. Bosch Platinums are good, the cheapies for 1.99

------------------
Webmaster: www.IROC-Z.org

 

I'm going to a set of accel shorty plugs because of my headers but for the last year or so I've been using autolites and I haven't had any problems with them. I think alot of these new plug designs are just a way to get you to spend more money with really getting much back. That's not to say there is anything wrong with regular platinum tip electrodes. My 99 sonoma has them and they are supposed to last 100,000 miles.

 

the whole point as I remember it for splitfires was to "unshroud" the spark and give the flame kernel more area to expand into. this is a good Idea as many racers will tell you about the plugs they use in cart and F1 that have NO secondary electrode.

the only problem with the +4s is that they limit the flame kernels advance far more than even a regular design would becuase all that extra metal is in the way.

Ive tried them all and ive never had more consistent idle and WOT power than with the plane jane delcos you buy for 10 bucks a set at walmart!

 

Matt,

That is precisely the kind of logic that sells multi-electrode spark plugs (and "magical" oil additives, intake Tornadoes, and all kinds of other useless crap.

No one is challenging your knowledge of electricity, but you need to couple that with your knowledge of flame kernel dynamics and the physics of the combustion process in an enclosed space.

If the task of a spark plug were only to provide an ionized plasma arc, your argument would be very sound. That's just the way the +4 and "SplitFire" guys want you to think.

Unfortunately, the purpose of a spark plug is to reliably ignite a fuel mixture in a combustion chamber. That includes high air pressure which can quench or completely extinguish an arc, moving gasses that can inhibit the ionization of the air gap, and semiconductive materials depositing on the surface of the plug. It also should require that the spark be generated in the exact same spot in the cylinder on every combustion/ignition cycle. This is why racers spend a ridiculous amount of time indexing their spark plugs - to gain the extra ten horsepower provided by having the spark occur in precisely the correct location in the chamber and not be shrouded by the side electrode. Hand a set of +4s to someone indexing spark plugs, then run like your life depended on it (it might). If the Bosch plugs don't stick into your back as you run for your life, they'll at least hurt like hell when they bounce off...

Try to imagine controlling the location of a spark when you have four possible choices in every cylinder, or even two like you might get with a SplitFire.

One other thing to consider from a reliability perspective - understanding the redundant safety nature of aircraft, did you ever see an FAA rating on a Bosch plug? Didn't think so. They use at least two sets of "plain old" spark plugs instead, but you can always get out and walk if the system fails, right?

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Check out what Late Model Dirt Track Engine builders are using, and you'll see 95% using indexed Autolite Racing Plugs. The have a cut back electrode that to further "unshroud" ,if you will, the electrode and reduce detonation. I am running Autolite 134's in my 383 now, and they are hard to beat. Best part is, they are only $1.69/ea. orded at Advance Auto Parts. If you take the advertised % of gain in power from say, Splitfire Plugs, Slick 80, One of these "Super Concentrated" Fuel Injection Cleaners, And maybe some, I'm tying not laugh, MOTOR UP!!,You could easily boost you HP by 70-80% for less than $100!! And some people are spending $2500-$3000 on Superchargers and Turbos to get 50% -LOSERS!! See what I mean, Advertising works so well, because so many only know where to put gas, water, and oil in their cars. They believe every thing they see on TV, and buy overpriced plugs, additives, and so forth, and somehow actually believe they made a difference in their car's performance, because they believe it HAD to make a difference because these products are SO much better. Sure, a set of Splitfires will make a big difference in a car with 4 or 5 yr old, 80,000K mile + factory plugs, but a NEW set of plugs just like what were in it will do the same for about a 1/4 of the cost.
On the other hand, I do wish I would have invented Splitfires, because I wouldn't have to work Tomorrow

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82 Z28 383, Ported 215cc Dart Iron Eagle Heads 72 cc Comb. Chambers, Comp custom grind Hyd roller cam, Speed Pro .250" domes, Wheeler Motorsports 4340 I beam rods, Eagle 5140 steel crank, Weiand Team G intake, Holley 830 DP, hedman headers
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET:11.63 @ 113.25, w/ a 7.39 1/8 @ 93.04, and a 1.626 60'


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 14.91 @92.9
Bassett Racing

 

It is nice to know some of you guys don't believe all that crap. I hate all this engine aditive and gain horse power by putting crap in your motor! By the way, NGK makes a great plug and I really liked them in my Toyota truck. Actually they performed way better than anything else. I am only young and I am a firm believer in the keep it simple way of thinking.

------------------
91 Z28 Camaro
305 TPI
Flowmaster 3" exhaust
700R4 with 2000 Stall and shift kit 3.42 rearend
Autometer shiftlight tach and B&M mega shifter
One sweet sounding system

 

Yeh PW, NGK does make a great plug. I was just surprised too see any mileage gain with the plat.

I usually don't belive all that "extra gain" stuff they advertise.

------------------
ASE Mechanic/Machinist/Smog Tech

1999 NBM Trans Am
1986 Chevy 3/4 ton pick up
1981 corvette
1995 Kawi ZX6R
and 2 POS commuters...

R.I.P. #3
"He can see air"

 

I have used the NGK V plugs for years and have never had a problem. They get my in the 10's and hold there own when "juiced". I like the plat plugs, I just don't use them for high performance. They have a longer life than a standard plug, put when was the last time your race motors went 100k miles!

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1992 Pontiac Firebird 350/Six Speed
1987 Toyota Pickup 383/500+ HP

 

SplitFire definately sucks. I have never tried Bosch plugs though. Anyone here use AC rapidfires? I like these plugs alot.

 

BR,

And I wish I had started using ProLong a long time ago so I wouldn't have wasted all that money on synthetic engine oil that I didn't need. I could have been running dry for years now without any problems.

Don't forget our tee-time is at 8:30 AM tomorrow - we can joke about all those "suckers" having to go to work all day long. Yeah, right, whatever...

Maybe you can concentrate on "Bassett Wheels" or something like that so that people can run without tires on their cars. Think of the money saved on Bridgestone/Ford litigation alone!

Or "Glass-X" that prevents buildup on windshields, eliminates the need for wipers forever, and makes air conditioning obsolete - available in both the standard "claw" or the new "ball-pein" formulations.

Seriously, I'll bet you could find at least a couple hundred morons nationwide that would actually order such a thing for $39.95 from a late night infomercial. Sad, isn't it?

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

[This message has been edited by Vader (edited June 17, 2001).]

 

I'll use Delco thank you, never had a problem and cheap enough to replace every 30K miles.

------------------
, Jon (350 TBI!)
91 Red My website

 

Ac Delco, tried and true. Dollar a piece. No problems yet.

------------------
1992 Pontiac Firebird (stock)
- 305ci V8 TBI / Automatic Trans / Every option, excluding leather
- Killer car audio system:

• Aiwa CDC-MP3 head unit
• Rockford Fosgate 360a2 amp
• pair of 12" MTX Thunder 5000s in a custom box
• Pioneer 3-way 6x9s, soon to add more more more!

 

LMAO @ Vader I like the commentary!! It never ceases to amaze me how many stupid people there are out there!

 

Stick with the AC`s they are made for our cars and their cheap to boot, all this new wave of so called super plugs is a waste of time and money, my car is living proof.

 

Just out of curiosity guys who were mentioning the physics of the flame front, can I have your source? My brother and his friend were working a new design for the internal compustion engine, but some aspects depended on the travel of the flame front...to a certain degree. When the went looking for information on calculating flame fronts, they found only one page with anything useful..lotsa unproven theories, and one proven theory...That there hadn't been any major research done in flamefront travel! Especially not in a high compression, highly dynamic envainment...such as a cylinder. If you have a book, or a web page, I'd really like the title/URL!
The best estimate found was appriximatly spherical expansion and a "Possibility of reflection" While I am sure that the electrodes could obsure a small part of the flame front, I seriously can't see 10 HP on a motor except for an *EXTREAMILY* precise racing motor.
Now if there has been research into the motion of the flame front and combustion, thats another thing altogather.
Another point is that it really isn't the shockwave from the front of the flame that is supposed to have all the force in it, it's supposed to be the *RAPID* expansion of the gasses since they are heating up in an extreamily short amount of time. Normally I would never go against the opinions of Vader as he really knows his sh*t! But this is one place where me, my brother, and his friend (Combonation of me Comp Sci/Physics major, my brother Physics/Electrical Engineering major, and my friend Mechanical Engineering major) all with a great deal of interest in well going faster/cheaper/lighter/more efficiently. Thus we were attempting to make a piston driven motor without the bigest waste of space/heat energy, known as the heads. Don't ask, I won't be going into it. There were several other ideas that fit so well, and we were looking at the possibility of multiple spark plugs/cylinder. But we thought logic says that we wanted two different shockwaves in two different directios, well, if they expand spherically they would interfere destructivly.
Again I ask, if you have a book with proven equations to properly describe the motion of a flame front, we would be very interested in seeing it!
Corry