I was told by the smog check station that my 86 firebird won't pass because the harmonic balancer is broken or something. I'm a girl, I don't know anyhting about cars, and I can't afford someone to put it in for me. My roommate might be able to help, but is it difficult to take out the bad one and put a new one in? Can I have someone do it just by reading the manual? I can't drive my car because I can't register it because of the damn smog check!!!! Its driving me crazy. Someone please help....

 

yeah it's easy to do. remove the belts, the crank pulley, then the crank bolt after that use a puller to remove the dampner (harmonic balancer) use a installation tool to put the new one back on with. you can rent the tools from auto zone or similar parts stores.

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

Like ede said, it's not too bad of a job... the only thing the smog guys need it for is to check the timing... the baklancer itself should be about $60-70 or so, Pioneer is a company that makes stuff like that, a machine shop should be able to get one if you can't find a parts store that has it. Auto Zone and Kragen and those places will "rent" you the puller & installer tool for free.

 

The balancer is a 2 piece item held together with a rubber isolater between the 2 parts. It removes harmonic vibrations from the engine. Chances are that the rubber is coming apart. I don't know why he picked it up. It has nothing to do with smog. If the rubber is just starting to squirt out from between the 2 parts it should be just fine. If obvious chunks are missing then you need a new balancer.

As ede said it's not hard to change but does need a few special tools. The easiest way to see it is from undernieth the front of the car. It's pressed on the front of the crankshaft behind the bottom pulley. The inspector must have been looking very good to see something wrong unless it was very obvious.

Can you take it to another inspection shop? Another inspector may not see it.

 

thanks! the guys at the smog place wanted to charge me $300 to fix it!!!

 

Stephen,

In CA as part of the visual check, the inspector has to check the timing... if the balancer is hosed, it won't pass.

I have a hard time believing that they go over cars with a fine-toothed comb like they do for the emissions stuff, but check NOTHING else. Not the brakes, lights, wipers, steering, etc. You can drive a totally unguided missile in this state, as long as it doesn't soil the air. What a hoot. Seems to me there's an issue of misplaced priorities here.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

RB, you can take a car in with 4 flat tires and the muffler dragging on the ground and get it smogged and drive home with no hassles. Safety inspections in this state are non-existant, have been for about 20ish years. Even then they were sporadic. As long as the car runs clean, they dont care if it can stop or not, as long as it goes cleanly.

 

QUOTE]Originally posted by ZOMBGOGO:
thanks! the guys at the smog place wanted to charge me $300 to fix it!!![/QUOTE]

Make sure that you are not getting hosed!!! There are vultures that prey on an "easy target". You are smart for getting a second opinion.

So is the harmonic balancer actually broken. I have a hard time believing that. Go to another shop for emmisions and see if they have the same diagnostics. And don't mention that another shop found this.

You could also look at the balancer yourself for the broken piece.

Here is what a good one looks like.

 

Good pic. See that thin ring between the outer solid piece and the inner piece with all the holes in it? That's the rubber isolator between the 2 pieces. If it's very deteriorated it can cause the outer ring to slip preventing you from getting a proper timing setting because the marks will have moved. The ring should look like that. Nice and smooth and complete all the way around. If there's large chunks missing or a large piece is trying to squirt out from between the 2 pieces then it's time for a new balancer.

Usually the timing mark is lined up with the crankshaft keyway but it isn't in that picture but it could just be an optical illusion. It depends where the timing pointer is on the timing chain cover.

 

Z Go,

For that much cash, they should be installing a fluid damper. A used-but-nice balancer from a wrecking yard should be around $25.00. A good balancer will have the outer ring intact, with no apparent cracks. The rubber isolation ring should be solid and without swelling or cracks. If the damper has not slipped, the timing marks on the outer edge should be almost directly in line with the crankshaft keyway:



A proper damper has the TDC timing mark actually about 7° retarded from the crank keyway, but it is adequate to estimate the mark as effectively in-line with the keyway when selecting a used damper. A damaged damper will often have teh timing mark retarded well over 20° from the keyway.

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Later,
Vader
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"Get UP - Drop the bombshell!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Just thought I'd slip in a few things as I did this TODAY.
I rented the puller from AutoZone ($15) and made the install tool simply from a piece of Allthread and a couple of nuts that I got at the hardware store, with the same threads as the center bolt holding the balancer to the crank - and a big washer.
Getting it off was fairly easy, but getting the new one on was a little more tricky - or rather, it required a LOT of elbow grease.

The balancer I bought from AutoZone was $96

The reason I replaced mine was that it had separated from the rubber isolator and the outer ring had moved inwards about an inch and was rubbing against the timing cover....


Ken

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Administrator @ ChevyWorld.net (Now in a BRAND NEW Design)

 

Just don't use the crank bolt to pull the balancer on. You'll pull the threads out of the end of the crank. An installer as mentioned above only uses the threads in the crank as an anchor. The nuts on the threaded rod will push the balancer on without trying to pull the threads out of the crank.

 

ok - im confused - I went to pep boys and Harvey's ( a local auto store) and both said the installer didn't exist... I then tried harbor freight and same thing... I've talked to 3 mechanics and they said just to screw it on with the crank pulley bolt...??!???

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91 z28 lb9 5 speed - hooker 1 5/8 headers - high flow cat- full 3 inch exhaust - home made ram air - tpis airfoil - dual chamber flowmaster - Stage 2 Jet Chip and 160 stat - 8 mm Msd plug wires - 55,000 v hypertech coil/rotor/distrib. cap - Mac. White face gauges - lots of sound system crap...

 

Stephen is right, using the bolt is a BIG risk. Like alot of othe rthings it works sometimes; but do you want to be the guy that his bud says he did it that way no problems, and then it hoses you? I don't think so.

Last time I "rented" one from Kragen, it came with both a puller and installer. The installer was much like the one Ken made (which I have also done with the desired results).

BTW Vader's pic is an earlier model car of some sort.... that style of tab won't work on these cars, because the PS pump is squarely in the way. The keyway always lines up with #1 TDC. On ours, with #1 at TDC, the mark is at about 12:30; the tab is near the center of the timing cover rather than being the kind that puts the mark at about 1:30.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

While this tool may not exist at their respective stores, it certainly does exist on the open market. I have found that this installation tool is absent from every “popular” auto parts store that I have been in, or at least not displayed.

I agree with the posts advising not to just use the crank bolt to install the balancer, even though I’ve done it this way when an installation tool was not available. The reason is a threaded rod will not place a twisting stress on these threads. It is harder to damage threads by just pulling than it would be by pulling and twisting. Similar to using threaded studs instead of just bolts for the crankshaft bearing caps. The safer method is with a threaded rod.

A thrust bearing between this nut and the balancer makes an installation easier. The better (more expensive) tools will have this bearing. I have just used a washer and gease as a compromise if no thrust bearing is availble.

Availability? Lots of places. Here are several:

1. J.C. Whitney www.jcwhitney.com
$25 UNKNOWN (appears to not have a thrust bearing)

2. Summit www.SummitRacing.com
(1) SUMMIT $95 installer/remover (w/roller thrust bearing – looks professional)
(2) MOROSO $45 installer only, also with a thrust bearing

3. Jeg’s www.jegs.com
PROFORM $73 installer/remover (cannot determine from the picture if it has the bearing – looks identical to the #1 SUMMIT)

4. PAW www.pawinc.com
(1) $105 CRANE CAMS installer/remover
(2) $70 UNKNOWN installer/remover
(3) $40 UNKNOWN (looks like the picture shows a thrust bearing, similar to the #2 Summit)
(4) $22 PROFORM (w/thrust bearing, looks similar to the #2 Summit)
(5) $22 PAW (w/thrust bearing – looks similar to the #2 Summit)

 

Hey, RB!

Are you calling me OLD?!

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Later,
Vader
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"Get UP - Drop the bombshell!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Me? call somebody else old? Unthinkable!

Excuse me minute I go off in a corner and geeze a little bit....

That pic is still "late model" to me, even though it's the style that was used from 69 to about 78 or 80 depending on the chassis. Others might have a different opinion of what's early and what's late though.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Is it true for the 400s also...That the keyway lines up with the mark on the outside of the balancer? I just checked mine and it would be about 12* degrees retarded if the keyway were 0* degrees.

I still have it on the stand so now would be the time to replace it.

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Black 90 IROC, L98, A4, 323 gear. SuperRamed 406 in the works!

 

thanks Stuart... I guess i'll drive to paw since theres one about 10 min from my house - I actually was going to go there but I figured they wouldn't have had it since the other didn't - oh well

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91 z28 lb9 5 speed - hooker 1 5/8 headers - high flow cat- full 3 inch exhaust - home made ram air - tpis airfoil - dual chamber flowmaster - Stage 2 Jet Chip and 160 stat - 8 mm Msd plug wires - 55,000 v hypertech coil/rotor/distrib. cap - Mac. White face gauges - lots of sound system crap...