My car wouldn`t start these days, the starter just grinding. A while ago it also was a bit slow the first 1/2-second before it ran normal fast.

The battery is new, but anyway i coupled 1 another battery in paralell. It didnt help. The voltage is falling to 10v (fram 12,5) when turning switch. That should be ok.

But when I measured + point direct at the starter it was only 8 volt! That means a 2 volt loose in the thick +cable from battery to starter. Therefore I took another thick startingcable and coupled it between starter and batt +.

But then starter won`t even grind! I only hear a click (solenoid?). I took this extracabel away, but now its still wont run/grind. But interior lightning reduce, and the battvoltage is only 7-8 volts when turning switch.

(I also measured and messed a bit with the solenoid-voltage, but maybe to late to conclude what was the realy fault?)

And the starter is warm/hot!!

Can it still be a chance that it is a solenoid-voltage problem, or is this rather safe that the starter is defekt?

If the starter is defekt I have a problem. The car is parked in a small garage under 1 floor and I would need a truck or something to tow it up on the street. I cant work under it to change the starter, I cant get my head/body under the car. It is parked close to a wall.

But where is the tow eye/point front/back on these cars???? The car has spoilerkit all around, so I cant use a lifter either.

 

Ahh...look what I found under the car (right under the starter) when I tried to get under the car and take a closer look at the starter. I recognize this as a part of the starter unit. Pic:

So, it is obvious that I have to change the starter. But is there a possibility that other parts are destroyed too?? I hope flywheel-teeth is ok!

Comments?

I also had contact with the shop that sell parts for US cars here in Norway. When asking for a new starter, they had to know if I have 168 or 153 teeth on my flywheel (is "flywheel" the correct word here?) to ensure getting the correct part/starter.

But isn`t it rather impossible to count these teeth? The flywheel, isn`t it partly covered and difficult to count teeth??

They also said that I could measure if the bolts (meaning mounting bolts??) was equal or not in length.

Comments?

 

Had that one happen before on a rebuilt 70s 350 with the missdrilled starter bolt holes.

 

OK. I will be aware of that when replace starter.

More comments, any?

 

Check to make sure that the teeth on the flywheel/flexplate are OK.

Past that make sure that you have the new starter shimmed correctly.

 

YEOUCH!! Talk about mis-alignment! How long was it grinding for?

Make damn sure you have it shimmed correctly!

 

Oh...grinded about 10 times.....2 second each time.

Ehh...."shimmed"...you have to explain that more. Do I have to align the gears to each other? By putting shims where? Sorry for the newbie-questions

 

I have now removed the defective starter. Flywheel was ok, no teeth missing. I`m going to buy a new starter now, but can someone shortly explain what you mean by shimming?

 

The store should have shims that fit between the starter and the mounting point on the engine. What you want to look for is that the pinion (The gear off of the starter) and the gears to the teeth have about .5mm space between them. In your case the pinion was probably too close hence causing what looks like the steel from the starter to scatter after the grinding. If your spaced too far out then your going to have to worry about wrecking either the pinion gear or the flywheel teeth.

I can't think of a way to count the teeth on the flywheel other than to mark one of the teeth and then rotate the engine with a large screwdriver and count. You should atleast be able to work your way half way around and then simply double it. You may even be able to see that much just by pulling the dust cover.

Good Luck,
Mike

 

1985, and earlier used 14" (355.6mm) diameter 168 tooth flywheels. A 153 tooth flywheel's diameter is 12.75" (323.85mm.)
If you're not sure if the engine is original then that's a moot point.

a straight line distance across 20 teeth center to center at the tip is 123.7031mm, and for a 153 tooth wheel the distance is 123.1646mm
At 10 teeth the difference isn't very discernable.

Or, there are alignment pins (or, bolts) on either side of the bellhousing at the same elevation measure the horizontal distance center to center between them, then measure the horizontal distance from center of one pin to the flywheel, multiply by 2, and subtract from the first measurement. The diffeence should be the diameter of the flywheel.

 

Thanks all for tips.

But about searching/buying the correct starter:

The shop also said that it was an easier way than counting flywheel teeth to determine whitch starter that fits my engine.

They told I had to look on the 2 mounting bolts that attatch the starter to the engine.

Either they was equally long both. Or they would have different sizes, one short and one long. My car has one short and one long bolt. So far, so good.

But now an another shop told me that none of these starters is for my car. They told me that an another starter with "metric" size was the right one for my specific engine. But that starter was almost twice as expencive as the others.......The first shop says that this can`t be right (their part-manuals says so).

For me it is not easy to determine whats correct, as the shop is far away from me and I cant take a look at it. They have to mail the starter. Then it rather be the correct one I order.

Comments, any? What shop telling correct?

 

Take the old starter in, and have them match it up...since you have it off, should be a slam dunk...assuming it worked well for a period of time, and this didn't occur with a car you just bought and the starter took a quick dump.

FWIW, I'm an old Chevy fart, I could list all the car's I've had from the 60's vintage through the 90's, but it would be boring...bottom line is I've never used a shim to make a starter work...never had a shim come out when I pulled one.

Maybe I've been lucky on the 12-15 starters I've replaced over the last 30 years.

 

Well, its 1 year since I bougth the car. And I havent started it more than about 100 times. So maybe it has been a bad component/alignment here.

As to mention the mounting pattern at my starter is inline. Not staggered. When searching at http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...rchType=Engine, the only starter available with inline mountings is a 153 teeth.

Is my conclution correct if I presume it is a 153 teeth, inline type?


Can this pic of starter specify more what type it is? A visual look and comparing is good enough?

(The shop that says that it cant be a metric-starter says it then had to be marked with sign "metric". But where on starter do I check for a marking?)

 

Pic:

 

Here's pictures of a 153T, and a 168T respectively. In comparison with you image I vote for the 153T.

 

That looks a lot like the starter I use in my car which is different from a lot of the other starters that NAPA or Advanced auto says I'm supposed to use. I can't find my maintenance book that has all my receipts right now, though. I think that you might be able to find it if you ask them to look up like a chevy C1500 pickup truck engine code K. I think they had them in like 1987.

Could part of his problem be that he's using the proper starter but perhaps not the correct starter bolts?

I think that I would go with the other starter, not the T. The pad looks different, in that one of the bolts is longer than the one that he's actually using but look how far off the starter gear is from where it would meet the flywheel on the T. It looks way too far off.

-=-Mike

 

Mike the T stands for teeth.
The 153 tooth starter uses different size bolts.

 

Hah! I'm an idiot! Besides not knowing that the 168 tooth looks like the bolts are offset from one another. Sorry about that!

 

Now I have bougth a new starter. But it looked a bit thicker than the old one I picked off the engine.

And, that was a problem. I tried to put it at its place, but it gets stuck between exhaust pipe and flywheel (or oilsump) This is when I put the starter in from behind. If I try to put it in from the front its not possible to turn around the starter in correct position because the solenoid then hits the engineblock. PITY !

I had to give up for this time. I measured the old and new starter. The old one was 31 cm in circumference at the thickest place (without solenoid of course). The new was 36 cm. That is 5 cm difference. That means that difference in diameter is 1,6 cm. In inches 0,63 thicker.

Any have tips about this?

Is it a special way to put it at place when its a bit thicker?

Do I have to move exhaust pipe by separating it from manifold?

Or try to return this starter and hope an another shop has a thinner one?

Pic of new starter:

 

Even if yuo got it in, I'm afraid it'll suffer from the exhaust heat, a thinner one would have more room for air to ciculate.

 

You can try a oem style starter for a manual transmission car they are usually quite a bit smaller in diameter. i had one on my car for a few years but it finally crapped out on me a few months back because their not made to turn over a heavier load associated with autos.

with my hedman long tubes it was a little close but i just shoehorned a regular auto starter in it, 3 year warranty so i dont care if the headers kill it :P

 

Thanks for the info.

I have just returned to the local shop that starter. They wanted instead to order from headquarter partcompany two other types of starters they had there. Part-company in Norway

One of the starters they ordered had an "M" in partnumber. I belive that that happen to be a "metric"size starter. But is there a possibility that a metric starter is the correct for my engine?

Witch lead us to this: To ensure correct part/starter I have to identify the engine better since I got some info from former owner that it was not the original engine in the car.

I checked the stamped number on the block in front on the engine, about 3-4 inches below the head.

The biggest letters/numbers here was this: V03080
And a small one looked like this: ICN II 5090
I have checked at www.mortec.com (and:here )but the first number seems to be a bit short to identifying anything. I can only say that it comes from the Flint plantation 8 march. But what type and year? I will check if I find other/better numbers at driver side at the back on the block.

 

I checked the rear of the engine. Found casting number. At Mortec

I found that my engine is a 305 produced between -80 and -85. That harmonize that I have been told a bit later that it`s a -82. Was Camaro / Firebird really delivered with that many different versions of starters ?? Was metric-types really one of them ?

 

My suggestion is to replace it with a mini-starter, that's what I use on my 1988 388cid TPI engine. My after market block uses the same bolt pattern as yours, and it'll work on 153, or 168 tooth flywheels.

 

My 84' uses a 153T flywheel, which came as original equipment with the T5. Automatic flex-plates may be different.

 

My bad, I left out the part that says, "Chevrolet passenger car flywheels are available in two different diameters."

 

Starter is mounted!

I was at the shop. They had now another 2 starters. I looked at them and measured, compared with my old defective starter.

They had correct size, equal thick as my old one. The only difference between these 2, was that one of them was marked "M" for metric. Other they looked equal.

The custom-helper told me that his books / part-manuals required the metric-version for my car / engine (Chevy 305 82-84 decleared)

We found the difference between these 2. A small difference: The metric starter had mounting bolt holes at size 10 mm. The non-metric starter had sligthly smaller, about 9 mm (in inches ??)

I measured my old starter, it had metric-size, 10 mm. But what size/type my mounting BOLTS was (SAE or metric) i didnt knew.
But I ended up buying the metric one. Even it cost 50$ more than the non-metric

But is there anyone who can establish if metric or non-metric on a 305 chevy 305 ??
--------------------
This new starter was no mounting problem at all. But I didnt use the following shims. I couldt / cant tell if they are needed. I wasn`t able to measure at the gears (0,5 mm space as you told me)

But the car starts OK, even if my new starter has an another "sound". I hope that "sound" is normal, and I have the correct clearance between startergear and flywheel (even if I didnt put on shims)

I noticing still that the starter sometimes hestitate a short moment before it turns quickly. If that will be a problem, could possible reasons be needing shims (or a high comp engine, a timing advance at 20deg) ?? Anyway I shall now give the battery a good charging.

I also noticed that this starter had 3 connectors at the solenoid, instead of 2 on the old one. That will be + for main/starter, and a + for activate solenoid/starter. But diagonnally it was another connector, same look as the last mentioned. What is this good for ??