What are your guys opinion on the old 301 Pontiac made in the 70's. isn't it almost the same as the old 302 chevy had and would the 301 handle power or at that be worth trying to build up. Would the engine beable to bolt right up into a firebird with the 700r4.

 

aside from the same bore and stroke, they are nothing alike. the 301 isn't even worth building up in turbo version. and no, it won't just bolt up to a 700r4 from a firebird.

 

Yeah from what i understand the 301 is crap. You should probably stay away from it.

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'89 firebird formula tpi
custom cold air,gutted maf(just screens),52mm tb,ported plenum,edelbrock runners and base,headers with 3" catback,tb coolant bypass,afpr@44 psi,msd 6a w\blasterII coil,3.73 posi,sf connectors and corvette servo

 

Well, I want to do something that u dont see a lot of people doing like I want to stay away from the 305 and 350, I want something that is kinda unique so what would be the best type of engine to use that u don't see a lot of people using but that will be a good engine to have.

 

i have one i just pulled out of my 80' formula, its really not all that bad of an engine, it was no 400, but for its time pretty good, with a 4.000 bore and 3.000 stroke was pretty good, i put a mild comp cam in mine and it really wasnt all that bad, and got great milage, i still have this complete turn-key engine for sale in illinois if you want it.

 

the only downside is you cant get an aftermarket intake for the 301, the best was the 301 HO t/a engine with a factory single plain intake and 1" carb spacer (the one i have)

 

Being different is great, but a word of warning on the Pontiac 301 engine.. it will cost you a lot of bucks. Pontiac motors are one of the most costly engines to build up and the 301 is not like the 326-455 blocks. They look almost identical, but the head deck height is about 1/2" lower, thus you can't even use an aftermarket intake from a 350 block..it won't fit! The 301 block is just casted from the 265 CID Pontiac block, just a bigger bore and longer stroke.

Trust me, I had a 265 that I was gonna build up... I changed my mind real quick when I saw that there is NOT a lot of products out there for it, and if you do find them, they are big bucks!!

Good luck though, I like the "being differnt" attitude!!!!

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89 T-Top Firebird 305 TBI Project Car with approval from my wife!

 

pontiac engines are probley the #3 cheapest and most common engine to build (outside the chevy and ford) they are not junk by any means and i've build a few, the deck hight is a little lower, givin the unuse of an aftermarket intake, but the HO intakes really wernt all that bad, actuallt the 301 came out first, (2bbl in the birds and big cars, the t/a's and formulas could get the 301 HO 4bbl or the 301 turbo) the 265 pontiac is really a poor platform and was used on 80-82 boats and was a POS, the 301 will use regualr pontiac roller rockers, valve covers, cams, headers, distrubtors, basically everything except the intake, really its not all that bad on an engine and forsure a unique engine in a 3rd gen!

 

Well sense that might be a lot more then i expected would it just be better to put a better cam in the 305 or what do u guys suggest that i should do.

 

Build a Pontiac 455
Go big, or go home!....

 

Well, I DO know that Car Craft chose the 301 Pontiac engine as one of the top 10 worse engines in automotive history.

- Might wanna try one of the old early 80's 350 diesel engines if ya wanna be really unique.

Seriously though, if I were to use that engine, (and I most likely wouldn't) I personally, would give it a warm-over (valve job, etc..), and drive it till it dies.

So far as "building" the engine goes, it would be a waste of money IMHO. I suggest you decide what you really want at this stage so far as performance goes, and stick with it.

Daily Driver?? - I recommend a 350
Weekend Warrior?? - No replacement for displacement!! (383, 400, 454, 455?)



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-1983 L69 Camaro Z28 305 H.O. (Bored .030 over,Teflon oil seals,Melling H.V. oil pump,Hyperetic pistons,chrome-moly rings,2040 Crane compu-cam) T-tops, 3:73 Open rear, BW T-5, Rebuilt E4ME 4 Barrel, Duel Snorkle Air Cleaner w/K&N Filter , Rhino Clutch, Crane 2040 Compu-cam, LS1 valve springs, porting, PST front end kit. Now for paint, interior, etc...etc.... Also:
2000 S10 4.3L 4WD LS
1995 Ford Thunderchicken, 4.6 V-8

 

OK well what is the difference between the Chevy big block and the Pontiac big block like the 400, and the 455, and would the 400 and the 455 bolt up to a 700r4 and would the block fit in the car. If that don't work then what about a chevy 302 I would really like to do that one.

 

something dfferent?go to a junk yard and find a caprice taxi cab enngine(4.3L model)take that crank stick it in a 4bolt production 350 block with 6in. rods=presto 302cu.in.aside from numbers the pontiacs are totally different.chevy used small block and big block engines,were as the 326-455 pontiacs are identical only the bore and stroke changed.i would say stick to chevy they'll bolt in with no problem and you wont have the tranny bolt pattern problem......

 

Ok I will stay with Chevy and do the 302 but will that bolt up to the 700r4 without any problems. or do I have to change something.

P.S Just curious but I could put in a Pontiac 400 or 455 without any problem. or would I have to change the tranny to a turbo 350

 

Do any of you know where to get a 302 crate motor or how would u go and make one like using a 350 block with a different crank.
( What type of crank to use if it can be done)

 

302s came about by combining a small journal 327 block with a 283 crank. (no magic parts here and crate versions disappeared 25 years ago) the ONLY reason these motors (DZ code) were made in this configuration was a 305 cubic inch limit in early trans am racing. If you want to build something unique how about a huge small block? 421, 434 or 468 cubic inches. Ex NASCAR parts are getting cheaper every year.

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BBC powered 82 firebird.
Street driven (barely) Best ET no nitrous: 9.42 @142mph , Fogger installed, shooting for low 8s this year

 

the cheapest way to make a 302 out of newer blocks is to use a crank and rods from a L99 engine and pistons of your choice for a 350.

 

Where can I get a hold of a new 283 crank and a 327 block with all the the parts to build the bottom end. I already now where I can buy the original cam and will dart iron eagle heads work.

 

The Pontiac 455 can be bolted up to the TH700r4, with an adapter plate.
But why? This motor won't need a steep
rear end gear.It's got gobs of torque.
Just gear it for a reasonable cruise speed and
use the tried and true TH400 (BOP). You could even go with a "switch pitch" TH400.
'65 to 6'67's had 'em

[This message has been edited by F-BIRD'88 (edited October 31, 2001).]

 

why would you want a 302? there powerband starts at like 4,000 RPm's you'd have to be drving around with a 3,500 stall and 4.88 gears! a 400 and 455 pontiac will fit, and they do make kits, also will fit with the TCI adapter plate, would make a great choice as you can get 400's pretty easy, 455's are a little harded, but you can use most all the stock parts in the engine and still make lots of power, plus all the low end torque will let you keep stock gears and stall and still haul *** and have daily drivin reliability, i vote go 400-455 pontiac.

 

301 pontiac was first built in 1969 as the engine for the trans am but the project was killed when it put out more hp and tq than the chevy 302 and pontiac substituted the 400 in the T/A,GM policy back then was chevrolet had to be king on the track. As for 4bbl intakes I had a 77 firebird with a 301 and the duo-jet the first duo-jets were like 50lbs the front section was the std Q jet primrary but the rear was solid so it looked like a Q jet when I removed it I found a4bbl intake so I put a std Q jet on and the engine came to life, quite impressive for no other mods done.Also the 76/77 301s were not thinwall castings and the cranks were cast iron not nodular, so if you have to do a 301 76/77 are the ones to do

 

I have had two cars with 301 engines in them. One was a 1980 T/A without the turbo. I will tell you one thing, they weren't any real powerhouse motors, but they were very reliable,smooth running motors. and I got lots of mileage out of them with minimal problems.(Way over 100,000 on one of them)
later
Mike


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Gran Turismo Americano "The Ultimate Firebird"
Smokin 1989 GTA- Bone stock except for exhaust. (no catalytic-stainless pipe into Flowmaster 2 chamber) & AC Delco Rapid Fire Plugs

 

301's were not a race engine in the 60's/70's. It was 303's, but the displacement ban was lifted, so the project was killed off. 301's were not around till '77-'78. They were offered first in big cars like bonivilles. In '78/'79 u could get a 4 speed and 301 in the Grand Am and Grand Prix!!! These were not fast cars, but probably a lot faster than other sedans of the time. A mild 301 can be built, but why??

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86 SC, 305 LG4, TH700R4, SLP headers, 3" cat and exhaust. ZZ intake, Mild cam 204/214, .423/.442. SLP shift kit, richmond 3.73's w/limited slip. Suspension Techniques Sway Bars, Globel West Wonderbar, Poly everything bushings, Metco LCA's, Lakewood Panhad Rod. 16" ROH, with BFG G-Force KDW 245's. Nothing easy can be fun...

 

right the late 60's engine was the 303 Ram Air V, really its reversed, the pontiac allways had a little power edge over the camaros, also like 86' says the 301 was first used in 77' in base birds and big cars, then the HO 4bbl was broug out in 79'-81 on the formulas and trans am's with the optional turbo 301.

 

Wow, I can't believe so many posted about a POS pontiac 301. My vote is for a 400 pontiac.

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350 with stealth intake, holley carb, 470 lift cam. 700r4 with .5 boost valve, vette servo, tci lock-up kit, B&M megashifter. Richmond 3.73 gears, powertrax locker, timkin bearings, synthetic lube. Custom 3 inch single into 2 2.5 pipes. 1 1/2 drop springs, 1 5/16 solid front sway bar, 1 inch rear bar, custom subframe connectors, custom LCA relocation brackets. Kobel ground FX, currant red metallic paint. Lots of other stuff...
82camaro

 

My first car was an 81 Tubo T/A
trust me even with the turbo it
was NOT a power house.Find something
else.

 

the turbo T/a was really not a bad car, it made 245 HP and 310 ft lbs of torque, for in 81' this was the baddest SOB around, thats alot of power, but givin it was in a 3.08 geared nearly 4,000 lb. t/a really kept it down, now givin in the nearly 1,000 lb. lighter 3rd gen, that would be one hell of a screamer

 

I owned a 1979 Firebird Fomula gold color with a brown Firebird emblem. It offered plenty of power, decent gas mileage and the motor was practically indestructible. It literally burned no oil whatsoever. It was smooth and powerful for a small V-8. I did have a problem with the Transmission so I swapper the OEM tranny for a Buick Transmission. The car ran forever. For a sportscar it was comfortable and it handled like a BMW. The problem I did have was people kept trying to steal it. The Steering wheel locked so that kept it in my possession.

 

23 years later...