What does it cost? You burn about twice as much as you would gas right? Couldn't I pass an emissions test with no problem? There is no visual inspection in Illinois as long as you pass the exhaust test.

 

lot more to using it than just dumping it in the tank, you'd need to change plugs, timing, increase fuel volumn, change o rings and gaskets to something compatable with it. and the big draw back to it right now is it doesn't light below 60* or so. last tiem i bought any it was 3 soemthing a gallon but it was at the track and a few years back.

------------------
ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

An engine running on Methanol will be very clean. When set up right. But most of the available methanol carbs are for racing and willbe too rich for clean emissions.If you buy Methanol in bulk (barrels) its about 1/2 the price of gas but yes you will burn twice as much. Works great for racing because it is cheaper to run than racing gas
has very hi octane and makes more torque.

 

VP fuels M1 methanol is around the cost of premium fuel. Still a lot cheaper than buying racing fuel. Some tracks still give the stuff away.

HOWEVER! trying to use methanol as a daily driver fuel is very expensive. Troubles that the racers have is that the engine runs very cold. This causes condensation in the engine and contaminates the oil. Oil changes are done many times a year. Methanol is very dry and corrosive. Entire fuel systems must be upgraded to handle the fuel. You'll burn about twice as much methanol as gasoline because of the air fuel ratio required. A lubricant must be added to the methanol to keep seals from drying out. Alcohol carbed car start a bit easier when it's cold out but not very well. When a car uses alcohol injection you'll see a pit crew person squirting somthing into the intake usually with an old dishsoap bottle. That's gasoline to help get the engine started.

Even with all the downsides methanol is the prefered fuel for racing. Colder running engines produce more power. Higher compression ratios can be used. Up to 15:1 is common. More HP can be produced because of all this.

Pro Street cars running methanol usually have to pass a smog test to be considered street legal and get a license. The emisions are low except the exhaust smells like formaldehyde.

Some day I'm switching my race car to alcohol but not this year.

------------------
Follow my racing progress on Stephen's racing page
and check out the race car

87 IROC-Z SuperPro ET Bracket Race Car
461 naturally aspirated Big Block (times are for the current engine)

Best ET on a time slip: 11.447 altitude corrected to 10.99
Best MPH on a time slip: 119.42 altitude corrected to 124.86
Altitude corrected rear wheel HP: 493
Best 60 foot: 1.586

Racing at 3500 feet elevation with a typical race day over 5000 feet density altitude!
Member of the Calgary Drag Racing Association

87 IROC bracket car, 91 454SS daily driver, 95 Homebuilt Harley

 

we had a metanol or ethanol pump around here for government and alternative fuel vehicles. It was about $1.00 a gallon. $.50 cheaper than gas. They wanted to get people to use it so I think it had no tax on it.

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6

305, TBI, 700R4, P.A.W. 14x3 open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips, Hooker 1-5/8" 50 state legal headers, Dynomax 3" I pipe (PN 44063 and 43248)
Super GRK_Taz World
F-Body Dual Exaust
EFI & Intake Options

 

Alcohol's fer Racin'..... Gasolin's fer washin' parts!

 

I've been hinting at that for several months now.

Incidentally, Stephen had a very important point. Methanol is corrosive. It LOVES to eat bronze alloys and brass, copper alloys, some rubber, etc. Ethanol is much better as a fuel for a street vehicle. Most "gasohol" contains ten percent ethanol. You can increase the proportion to about 30% before you'll have any serious drivability problems, but will lose some power as a tradeoff unless you've built the engine to use the fuel properly.

To pass emissions, a little extra ethanol might help a lot if you are high on HCs, but won't help a lot (but does help a little) for NOX emissions, since the mixture burns a bit cooler. More alcohol means even cooler burning, and lower NOX. The ECM should be able to handle adding the extra fuel necessary to produce a satisfactory test run on 30% ethanol, but at reduced power because of the leaner mix. It should get you through the test lane. You might even want to try it with just the standard mix of ten percent first.

------------------
Later,
Vader
------------------
If you want to beat the World, it might reach up and pull you down...
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

I finally got a price on Methanol from the local VP fuel distributor. $180/drum Canadian. That works out to $.878/liter and 92 pump gas here in Calgary is currently $.784/liter. Of course the compression limit is low for the 92 pump gas. If you have a 13:1 engine it would need VP C12 at around $3.60/liter. 15:1 would need C14 and I don't even want to know the price of that. You would need to burn 4 times as much alcohol to equal the cost of the race fuel.

Today's exchange rate, Nov 13, is 1USD = 1.5749CAD

92 pump gas
1 US gallon = 3.78 liters.
1 US gallon = $2.96 Canadian
1 US gallon = $1.88 US
Is that close?

Methanol would work out to $2.11/US gallon
C12 would be $8.64/US gallon.

Things have changed since my last post. I am switching to alcohol this winter. Breaking the engine at the end of the season means it needs to be rebuilt again. 13:1 pistons will need race gas or alcohol and I got a smoking deal on an alcohol carb so that made making the switch even easier.

 

Man, are you getting the short end....

As of this morning, 94 octane no-lead w/10% ethanol was priced at $1.56 (US) here. Straight 93 gasoline was $1.64. Considering the trade-off between cooler running and more advance (thus, more dynamic compression) and the slight loss of power/gallon of alcohols, I'm sticking with the 10% blend. The cost works out to be about the same, and I'm emitting less junk to make the power. A calculated loss of about 3% in miles/gallon (or HP/gallon) is offset by the reduced cost, and there is always the immediate benefit of cooler burning for those little "sprints", albeit at a slightly higher fuel flow. Thanks to an AFPR, it doesn't bother me a bit.

 

It was said above that an engine setup to run on ethanol will make more power. What needs to be done to it? Higher dynamic compression?

Hey giovanhalen, what does you car look like? I'm right over in Oakville by the Lindberg Hooters.

 

Welcome to Canada. The land of taxes. At least it's still cheaper to live in Alberta than the other provinces.

Higher compression builds torque. There are limits with pump gas. Using alcohol you could run a 9:1 engine or a 15:1 engine however the more compression will build more power but also brings other things into account.

Our gas prices in the city suck. It's actually cheaper to drive out of town for gas. A few cents a liter is a lot. Think of it as buying gas by the quart. A few cents a quart makes a big difference to the price of a gallon.

Trouble is a 60 mile round trip doesn't save me much gas so I pay the higher local prices. My truck only gets 10-12 MPG.