is it possible to do this? ive read all the topics on this, but my motor fires up, and some are loose, is it possible to turn on the car, unloosen the roller rocker til there is play, then tighten til there is noise between the pushrod and roller rocker, then make a 3/4 turn with a ratchet

is this possible?

 

Hydraulic lifters allow for some variance in adjustment but adjusting while the engine is running is just a ballpark setting.

Hydraulic lifters require .030" +/- .010" preload from zero lash to work properly. When the engine is off and the lifter is on the base circle, you adjust the rocker until all the play is out of the pushrod. That's zero lash. 1/2 turn tighter is very close to .030" preload.

 

Not only possible but preferred for hydraulic cams. I have an old valve cover with the top cut off and a set of oil-deflecting rocker arm clips for exactly this purpose. Back off each valve slowly until it starts to click. Tighten till it stops. Then another 1/4 turn or whatever you prefer down from there and lock it in place.

 

It is easy to do, just makes a mess. I haven't set mine running in years due to the mess it makes. There are multiple ways to do it, you need to find one you like. Personally, I adjust the pair when the cylinder is at TDC and firing. This happens when the cylinder 360 degrees out in the firing order rocks (exhaust closing, intake opening). They pair up (adjust left column when right column is rocking):

1 6
8 5
4 7
3 2
6 1
5 8
7 4
2 3

 

**** i tighten them, and half of them just keep loosening, and its very annoying.

one time i even tightened them til i could see the spring compress itself down, and they still untighteneed themselved, what the hell do i do?

 

1: You have worn out cam lobes or worn out lifters
2: The rocker nut loosens itself off
3: You're pulling the rocker stud out of the head

Start by replacing all the rocker nuts.

 

im gonna try and do the valve lash again, iw as reading in another post

put the #1 at TDC, then tighten each one til there is no play in the pushrod, then turn the crank 90 degrees. tighten then all 1/4 turn, then turn the crank 90 more degrees and if any have play tighten them 1/4 again. keep turning the motor 90 degress til none have play. once this is done, put #1 and tDC again, then tighten 1/2 turn more all rockers.

 

Actually you can set all the valves by just using the TDC mark on the balancer. Set the balancer to zero degrees TDC. Determine if you're on #1 or #6.

With #1 TDC adjust
Exh 1,3,4,8
Int 1,2,5,7

With #6 TDC adjust
Exh 2,5,6,7
Int 3,4,6,8

 

or i can turn on the motor, and unloosen each one until i hear it tapping, then i tighten til no more tapping, and give it 1/2 turn

right?

 

The proper way to adjust valves is with the engine off.

 

I always thought that you could not adjust the valves with the engine running on a roller motor only.

I had done the adjustments both ways on my 350. with it running I had no problems. just don't touch the gas even a little. or you will be cleaning for months.

 

roughskinjrz, I don't mean any offense with this question (in case you know and the issue is something else): are you locking the poly lock adjuster via the set screw?

Inside of each lock should be a set screw that gets snugged down against the top of the rocker stud. I use a wrench on both the hex and the set screw, once the lash is set run the set screw down, then turn both (tighter) just a smidge. That will lock them in place. Don't go overboard, just a smidge tighter will hold them.

RBob.

 

well rob you got me. these are the roller rockers on summitracing.com - TFS-31400513

when i tighten the polylocks, how will i know when the set screw is at the top of the stud, (and what do you mean by hex)

i usually tighten them all until there is no play in the pushrod, maybe this is my problem, the polylock is not going down far enough on the stud?

 

only thing is, on most of them, it goes down pretty far, and im pretty sure it locks, because it is tight, and they dont come loose, BUT on the other half, the rocker doesnt go down as far, if im at #1 TDC, change it to TDC #6 will the rock go down and i see more of the stud, probably not eh?

 

Attached is a pic of a polylock. This one is a CompCams unit, but unless for use with a studgirdle they are all much the same.

The hex on the one end it is the top of the lock. Inside of that end should be a set screw. Need to use an Allen style wrench to rotate the set screw.

Before putting the locks on run the set screw out until it is flush with the top of the hex end of the lock. Place the lock over the stud hex end up and screw it down by hand. Stop as soon as there is no longer any push rod play.

Now adjust the valves one at a time. Once a valve is adjusted prevent the polylock from moving by holding the hex end in place with the wrench. Using the Allen wrench run the set screw down into the lock until it is in contact with the top of the stud.

Once touching turn both the hex wrench and the Allen wrench a smidge tighter. Done. Move to the next valve.

See how that works out.

My preference for tools is an offset box for the poly hex, and a T-handle Allen for the set screw.

RBob.

{edit: had another thought about the polylocks at different heights. The roller rocker piece that goes over the stud. There is a rounded side and a flat side. Need the flat side up. The lock needs the flat surface to seat on. }

 

Is it a hyd roller or not?

 

the cam is a hydraulic.

rrob, i got about half of that. the Hex is the 9/16 part at the top, now there is no spot on the top of the hex for an allen key, now inside of the poylock down the threaded part when i look inside there is a gold piece at the end, dont recall if i could put a allen key in there or not.

what do you mean run the set screw until it is flush with the hex? you mean turn until its all the way to the top up by the hex, which i think they are, they are at the end.

what about "unloosening" the inside (if its possible) until it comes almost to the end at the opening part where it goes into the stud. that way while im tightening the roller rocker til there is no play in the pushrod, it will be at the right point inside the polylock, tighten them. but i dont get how you said use allen key AND wrench, because if its on the inside i cant tighten it.

here are pics of my roller rockers on the motor:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/8...kers0037yg.jpg

 

The main body of the poly lock is what adjusts the valve and the small grub screw inside is what locks it in place to keep it adjusted. Use the lock to adjust the valve. When the lifter is on the base circle tighten it to zero lash then go 1/4- 1/2 a turn. Then tighten down the grub screw.

 

oh, i have i do the 1/2 turn, put an allen key inside and tighten it until its snug, or til i cant turn it no more?

 

the easiest way to set the valves i read is by firing order

TDC #1
tighten intake/exhaust #1
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #8
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #4
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #3
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #6
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #5
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #7
Turn 90 Degrees
tighten intake/exhaust #2

this is how i did it, and played with pushrods til they didnt move, then made 1/2 turn on all

now when i go back to the car, i put allen key wrench inside middle of hex, and turn til it is snug and cant tighten anymore?

 

Yes. 1/2 turn on the nut, and then insert an allen wrench in the center and tighten it while holding the nut so it does not move (using a box-end wrench). I lock them down harder by turning the 9/16 wrench and allen wrench together an extra 1/8 of a turn after the insert(allen head) is tight.

 

thanks alot guys, this is one think i havent tried, and i believe it will fix my problem, i will do this and let you know how it goes, thanks.

 

well i re-did the whole valve lash thing, everytime i did 1/2 i would tighten the allen key, then do 1/8th turn with wrench and allen key.

NOW, after i tightened all of them, i went around and checked for play, none of them would wiggle up and down at all, but they would move side to side about 1cm, so i tightened less then 1/8th and they all were tight again.

i never turned on the car, cuz i had to put some silicone in behind my new intake because of a leak, so i will let that sit over night, i will let you guys know tomorrow or tuesday how things went

thanks alot

 

I'm really not sure what you're doing. When you adjust valves with the poly-locks you first start with zero lash (can't wiggle the pushrod but it's not being compressed into the lifter yet). Tighten the nut 1/2 turn from there then tighten the center set screw. The set screw pushes down on the rocker stud and pulls the nut's threads tight against the rocker stud. After you've adjusted the rockers, you'll still be able to turn the pushrods because of how the hydraulic lifters are designed. Don't go tightening them down again because they feel loose. That's just the lifter bleeding off pressure.

 

hmm well ****, haha

i re-did everything, set zero lash, tightened til no play in pushrod, then did extra 1/2 turn, then tightened both the allen key til it was tight. after all this i tightened the allen key and the polylock 1/8th turn just to be sure.

after doing every valve, i went around with my hand, and wiggled each rocker to make sure they were tight, about half or a little more i could wiggle then sideways but not up and down, is this fine and suppose to be like that?

since it did that, i just went around and did 1/8th turn on each one, now they dont wiggle at all, i dont think i overtightened them, but im not going to tighten them anymore, i bolted on the valve covers.

what do you's think?

 

As I mentioned in my first post, hydraulic lifters allow some variation in setting. 1/8 turn past the 1/2 turn isn't going to hurt anything. You've just added a few thousands more preload. Hydraulic lifters are not like solids where precise adjustment is required. I'd rather see that you have them slightly tighter than slightly loose.

Now if you still have adjustment problems, it's going to be easier to track down a specific fault. As mentioned by someone else above, make sure the flat on the rocker trunion is on the top side for the adjuster nut to rest on.

 

ok good, so that im good there


now the last part you said:

"As mentioned by someone else above, make sure the flat on the rocker trunion is on the top side for the adjuster nut to rest on."

im not sure what you mean here?

if you look above, you will see how i have the rockers setup, i showed a picture of them on my heads.

 

You can't tell from that picture. If you remove one of the rockers and look at the trunion, you'll see a difference on both sides of the hole. One side will be rounded. The other side will have a flat spot for the rocker nut to sit on. Just make sure the flat spot is inder the nut and not on the underside of the rocker. You should be able to look at each one as it's on the head to see if the flat spot is on the top.

 

OHH you mean the little silver thing that rotates in the middle of the rock, **** how would i know that, without taking them off, wouldnt it not sit right if its on the round part?

 

You should be able to look down past the polylock and see that area of the trunion. May need a flashlight to get enough light in that area.

RBob.

 

My guess is that you don't have the flat side of the trunion (which is basically the axle the RR is rocking back and forth one) facing up so that the plylock is sitting on a flat surface (instead of a rounded one). I made this mistake once, and wth the rounded side facing up it was eating up the polylock, grinding it down a little at a time so that valve kept loosening up. If this is your problem, please get a whole new set of polylocks. Do NOT re-use a polylock that has been ground into a curved shape on the bottom of it where it contacts the trunion/axle. Summit sells them, though most other places will too. If I remember correctly, they're in the $50 range fro a whole new set of 16 polylocks. Hope this helps!

 

Just to add to the good tech already mentioned, side to side movement is fine, you don't want any up and down movement. I find the best way to find zero lash is to spin the pushrod with my fingers while I tighten the rocker, once you feel resistance you know your at zero lash. It's too easy to over tighten the rockers just trying to wiggle the rocker up and down. If your not getting any side to side movement then you may have completely colapsed the lifter and are actually opening the valve.

I also use the Intake open, then adjust the exhaust, exhaust open then adjust the intake method. This guarantees that the lifter is on the basecircle.

 

your telling me the rounded end of the the trunion on the stud, and the flat side up so the polylock sits on it?

 

That sounds right to me.

 

one more question, motor at TDC, without taking off spark plugs, because mine are on such a bad angle i have to take off the header to get at it.

is there another way to find out how to get TDC #1? like when intake or exhaust rocker on #1 is at max lift?

 

Do you mean TDC when #1 is firing. It is when #6 exhaust is closing, and the intake is opening. The valves on #1 will both be closed at this point (as in good time to adjust them).