I just swapped in an xe268 cam, when i started it up and checked the base timing it was at like 56 degrees and i could only turn the distributor enough to bring it down to about 30 before it would die. I am 99.99% sure that the timing dots on the gears where dot to dot when i put them on. I have the rotor pointing to the #1 post when the engine is at TDC and all the plug wires are in the correct positions.

So my question is, what the hell is going on here.

And even if by some chance the gears were off by a tooth it would only be about 9* different right?

BTW, the car is not computer controlled and yes i had the vacuum advance disconnected.

 

sounds like you had a problem similar to mine. i changed out a cam and my timing was at about 50-60 degrees also.

try a positive piston stop to make sure your timing marker is lined up right, and move on from there.

for the thread i posted, click here:ignition confusion

 

Dot to dot is firing for the #6 and exhaust for the #1. You need to pull the distributor and re-install it on #1 firing. Either that or move all of your plug wires to accomodate your rotor location. It is easier to just pull the dizzy, bump the motor until you feel compression on the #1 (put finger over empty spark plug hole) and re-install it with the rotor pointing to the #1 terminal on the cap. Fire, set timing, and grab beer.

 

Well for some reason it appears that the timing mark is way off from where it was before. I brought the engine to TDC by watching for both #1 valves to be closed and also had someone put their finger over the plug hole. When that was done the timing mark was at about the 11 o'clock position instead of the 1 o'clock position where the 0 degree mark is on the timing tab.

So i left it there and arranged the distributor accordingly and it cranked right up. I let it run for about 10 minutes with no problems. Engine temp was good, no glowing headers. I gave it some throttle and had no pinging or backfiring or anything.

So i went through the break-in procedures for the cam and took it out for a spin and this thing is a whole new monster and it had no problems.

Any ideas to how the balancer mark got off like that?

 

When dampers go bad the outer ring slips from the inner ring. Thats probably what happened with yours. Sounds like its time for a new damper.

 

isn't it kinda weird though that it happened between the time i took it off and the time i put it back on?

 

You also may not have had the motor at true TDC. When you bump the motor over and feel compression on your finger you really need to line the balancer up with the zero mark on the timing tab. Just feeling compression doesn't always mean you are right at TDC. It means that you are close and you can line up the motor from there.

What did you set the base timing at after you fired it up? Did that value hold? If not I suggest as dankhound did.

 

When was the last time you checked your timing BEFORE you yanked the balancer to do the cam change? It probably slipped weeks or months before you dug into the motor to change the cam but you didn't notice it until you went to reset the timing with the new cam in.

Your ignition timing mark not lining up has nothing to do with your new cam or how you installed the timing chain gears.

You ARE looking at the #1 cylinder, aren't you??? Driver's side, front-most plug. I assume so since you have apparently successfully set the ignition timing before.

 

i used the feeling of compression as a second way of telling it was at TDC, i also made sure both valves were closed on the #1. I spun it until the exhaust valve JUST started to open and backed it off very little, so i know that it is actually at TDC. The timing was last checked about a week ago, i built this motor and put it in and about a week later i decided i didn't like the cam that was in it.

As for what the base timing is set at now, i couldn't tell you because the mark doesn't even begin to line up with the tab. I timed it by ear.

Would the balancer be loose enough to be able to spin the outer ring by hand if it were bad?

 

No, it will still be tight by hand. It'll only move around when the motor is running at some elevated RPMs and it's trying to absorb the rather brutal torsional (twisting) vibrations running up and down the crank as the various cylinders fire.

When the exhaust valve opens is no where near TDC. More like 120* after TDC of the firing stroke. You feel for compression and then slowly turn the engine over by hand while either looking for the piston to rise to TDC through the spark plug hole (a small mirror and a flashlight are useful for this) or use a feeler through the plug hole like a drinking straw to feel when the piston is nearing TDC. Neither method will find you exact TDC but it'll get you in the realm of sanity.

Are you using an original/stock 12:00 position balancer with an aftermarket 1:30 position timing tab, by any chance? That's a common mismatch when mixing and matching stock and aftermarket parts.

 

I had similar problems after my cam swap and here is what I did.
pull rocker arm cover watch number one intake valve open and close. continue rotating by hand until the balancer is at the 0 mark on the timing indicator tab. this puts number 1 at tdc.

position your rotor to point between #1 and #8 cylinder not 1 or 8 but in between the two. otherwise your distributor will be off center and you will be hard pressed to adjust the timing correctly.

 

To drop the dizzy in correctly, you want the #1 piston at firing TDC. This occurs only when the rocker arms on #6 are "rocking".

It also seems like its time for a new harmonic balancer, if its the facory piece then its 14 years old.

 

I agree that its time for a new balancer, the shortblock i have is actually from a '70 so its really more like 35 years old, lol. Im gonna change it this morning and i hope it will end up being the cause of this problem and the bucking/popping problem a couple posts down.