Ok here is the deal.. I will paypal anyone who can get my car to start and run. I have tryed for weeks and can not get it going.

I have a video of the car to help as a diagnostic aid.

I first try to start it normally, then i spray some starting fluid in the TBI of the motor.(crossfire). Then I start it normal again.

The injectors spray a perfect cone.
Read the rest of the vid for more details.

Please save to disk
http://members.***.net/scarponework/firebird/Fireb.avi

 

If you just let it run after the starting fluid, how long does it run? Does it eventually die off? Run rough?

Have you tried a fuel pressure test on BOTH throttle bodies?

I'm assuming when you put the cap and rotor back at #1, you put the engine there as well?

 

It evently dies off after the fluid is burned off.

The cap and rotor and motor are at one.

I have not done a fuel pressure test. Due to the lack of tools and the fact of it being a bitch to drop the tank.

 

Try jacking it up and hitting the gas tank w/a hammer while someone else tries to start it. Just make sure you are hitting the tank and not the heat shield. if it starts dont shut it off until you have it where you want it cause that only works 1 or 2 times.

If that doesn't work you might have a problem in V.A.T system

 

Try a fuel pressure test. Autozone rents them out in the Loan-a-tool service. Not sure if they have the TBI adapters though. Don't have to drop the tank to test it.

As for the above, any CFI won't be VATS equipped.

 

autozone sells them only for 44 plus tax.

Could i just buy a external pump and just pump it throught the old pump?

 

You could try. People on here have had limited success when doing that. I've seen some people able to draw through, others have not been able to.

 

Sounds like your fuel pump needs to be replaced, change the fuel filter 1st, check the relay & fuse.

 

Mine did the same thing. It turned out to be the fuel pump.

 

I already changed the filter. And what is the psi suppose to be while cranking since that is all it does.

 

The design pressure is 11-13 PSIG, but I've run a TBI on 7 pounds - Not well, mind you, but it would run.

Get the TBI adapter and test the pressure from above. I'm not sure, but does the CFI have one fuel pressure regulator or two?

FWIW, if "The injectors spray a perfect cone" of fuel, you have fuel pressure.

 

I have found this to not always be true Vader. I worked on two TBI cars that had dying fuel pumps that would spray a perfect cone but with less than 6psi of pressure (after I finally tested it). Needless to say it confused me because I swore the whole time that I had fuel. It is definately not the norm by any means though and it cam be ruled out if you see an occasional drip from the inecjtors.

 

If you have a second helper and a timing light, have someone point the timing light (connected as you would to check timing) at the TBI bores while cranking or after you hit the engine with the starting fluid. As everyone else has suggested, I'll bet you're losing pressure to the point the injectors stop creating a pretty cone shape of fuel.

Although this will be little comfort, I've seen conditions even on carbed cars where the "sock filter" on the fuel pickup in the tank got so dirty very little fuel would flow through. I say this is little comfort because, in order to check this, you're still stuck dropping the tank and removing the pump. Might as well put a whole new assembly in there at that point!

Another thing to consider is that the ECM could be going "bad". With the EST line disconnected and starting fluid in the engine, it's pretty much guaranteed to run assuming the engine is mechanically sound. It might be that your injectors fire a few times before the ECM shuts things down later......? One of my stock '81 computers had a problem like this. One time I'd start the engine and everything would be fine. Next time, no start. Walk away (in frustration) to try again later, maybe it would start. When I took it into the dealership (driving there on one of the start cycles) for them to connect to their computer, they indicated they were seeing something similar. When it ran, it didn't throw any codes and looked fine. When it didn't run, it was like the computer wasn't even there. New ECM fixed everything......

 

Well i have about 900 dollers in this car.. It is a C box title and as 038334 miles on the cluster.

Is it worth putting a pump in if that is the case?

 

As fast as it fired up with starting fluid, I'm betting the timing is ok.

Dropping the tank and replacing the pump is not as hard as it is made out to be. Usually, once it's done, it was easier than you anticipated to be.

And yes, it would probably be in better interest to replace the pump (again, test the fuel pressure first - no use in replacing the pump if the fuel pressure checks out).

 

Ok I will go buy a fuel pressure tester tommorow..

If that is not the case what years ecms are compatable with my ecm 83 305 crossfire?

 

Out of curiosity, you say that it eventually dies off. How long does it take for it to die off? I would think that if the injectors ARE indeed spraying, it would at least stumble for an idle.

 

If i spray starter fluid in the tbi it idles for maybe 3-4 seconds.
If i touch the throttle at all it dies faster and usually back fires which catches the butterflys on fire and has swooshing noise.

 

Did you do the timing with a light?

PM sent.

 

is it at all possible the motors getting flooded with gas? This sounds a lot like the 350 swap I helped on a while back and our issue was all the gas getting dumped in the motor- when we finally got it running we went thru a lil over 1/4 tank just from starting it over and over.

 

Timing can only be checked while cranking the motor(which is slow like 1 flash every second.) Never been able to do it while it was running.

 

How would you suggest fixing it if it was this problem?

 

No argument here. That's just about what I said.

Here's how that can happen:




sss,

During that 3-4 second run, do the injectors spray? Is the gasoline fresh, or did somone dump water in the tank?

 

Yes the injectors are spraying while it is running for 3-4 seconds
I drained the tank snd put like 3 gallons of 91

 

Do you have an inline spark tester?

 

Nope do i need one?

 

you know I honestly wouldnt know, that motor was carbed and I have more experience in that. There's a lot of things that can cause it. Could be as simple as the throttle cable (this was part of our problem with the 350) or something like a cracked intake manifold, which is why my bf finally got rid of his RS

 

I just bought a new pump and will install it tommorow.

I didnt like the cone it was spraying when the car was running.

 

believe me i had this exact same problem! exactly the same even down to the starter fluid gettin it to run for a couple fo seconds. its the damn VATS, put a resistor in to bypass it and it will start up!

 

A CFI Car will NOT have VATS.

 

his 83 doesn't have vats, its the fuel pump

 

What He said. ^

No VATS on an 83 OR on any CFI.

It's the fuel pump. Do what someone said above and measure the fuel presure. Then replace the pump. The fuel pumps on those things sucked so please replace it w/a TPI pump or better. I used a Walbro 255 lph on my old CFI w/GREAT results.

To someone that asked above, the CFI has only one FPR. It's on the Drivers side (rear) TBI. You need to tap into the system before that point. I used to do it where the rubber line plugs into the fuel filter. If you don't know where that is, it's on the passengers side of the block, where a mech fuel pump would be on a carb'ed engine. Pretty easy place to tap in and get presures. It should be 9-13 and I've always found that the CFI will run much better toward the 13 side of the range. The FPR IS adjustable w/minor grinding of a tack weld.

 

Funny how the quest for money gets sooo many replies.

"Search", you're topic has been here so many times before.

 

I searched for it before i posted, but please show me a previous topic about a cfi motor that throws flames out the tbi's and has the exact problem as my car. I am sure the 31 people would have pointed that out, if another post was the same as mine.

If you can find a post, I appolgize, if not get off my nuts about it.

 

Heres a pic of the hose that is cracked

 

Leaking