I'm in the military and was at the gas station on postthis morning. I'm putting the fuel cap back on my jeep when I see a sign for 85% ethanol fuel for $1.92 a gallon. I'm thinking to myself, would it run in my camaro? I know a guy that runs ethanol in his all motor 454, 67 Camaro. From what dyno programs show you can pick up a a little horsepower with ethanol too. I know you don't get the mileage with ethanol, but at $2.40 or more a gallon for 93 octane it almost seems worth the mileage loss. All I would have to do is put bigger jets in the carb, which I already have. It would be a five minute job to run 50 cents less a gallon, with a little more HP, and a cleaner burning engine. It's a track car for the most part so mileage isn't a big deal. Just want to get some opinions.

 

You mean E85? I tried to find my original owners manual for my F-body because it did mention to avoid fuels with more than 10% alcohol. But I am not certain if they meant ethanol or methanol (I always confuse the two). The issue was the alcohol was corrosive to the fuel injectors.

But since you will be using a carb, that is not an issue. Give it a try. If you don't like it, switch back.

 

I guess it's E85. The sign just said 85% ethanol. I believe it also said something about being for mixed fuel vehicles towards the bottom. From what I've read, only methonol is extremely corrosive. Seems ethanol is only slightly harsher than regular gasoline.

 

I learned a little about E85 recently...

It is supposed to burn alot more efficiently (therefore cleaner on emissions). It is cheaper but harder to find.

Everything I've heard agrees with you that it is for mixed fuel vehicles. Alot of the newer cars/trucks have the ECU programmed to adjust for this kind of fuel.

My boss and I tried mixing the fuel in his Canyon (its either a 2004 or 2005). We ran about a 25/75% mix and it ran fine. We then put 100% E85 in the next time we hit the pump. The check engine light came on quickly. However, the truck ran just fine.

I'm not sure if it will work in an F-Body. My guess is running 100% in an F-Body would be very bad!
However, if you do decide to try it, my advice would be to mix it with gasoline. It is my understanding that mixing is also recommended on some of the "almost E85 years" programmed ECU cars/trucks.

Just my 2 cents.

Hope this helps.

 

I dont know if you know anything about prom tuning but i do know that Glenn91L98GTA does and he might be able to help me explain any questions about the link posted below. It was a big topic for a while in the DIY-Prom section. The vehicles that can use E85 and tune itself properly to it are called Flexible Fuel Vehicles. If you ever see a Ford with an emblem that looks like a leaf with stripes and it says FFV below it, that is a Flexible Fuel Vehicle. Or since its a ford it could mean Faulty Ford Vehicle j/k

Flexible Fuel Vehicles

Good luck and let us know your results.

 

His check engine light probably came on is because the O2 sensors read it as the engine leaning out because it's not getting the normal amount of emissions. Ethanol is super clean burning. I've been told that if you fail emissions testing and can find ethanol, you can add a gallon or two and end up being way below were you have to be.

As for using it in my car, I'm running a carb and have no computer systems, so that's not a factor.

Faulty Ford Vehicle.....LOL! That should be on every ford car.

 

you have to run allot richer when running achocal....I belive 12:1 is the proper AFR....(don't quote me on that ratio), just somthing to keep in mind.

 

Ethanol fuels are used for efficiency and cooling reasons. Your engine depends on the lubricity of gasoline to maintain some life span of its ignition and fuel delivery systems. Alcohol fuels won't have the same desirable traits. You will also need to run incredibly high compression ratios to make best use of the higher octane level. The energy/volume price for alcohol vs gasoline is not in your favor for anything other than track use. If this car were to be driven on the street you would need far more fuel delivery/capacity to have the same range as gasoline whcih would offset the cost difference. When used right methanol/ethanol can create desirable results in an IC engine. You can drastically increase the VE due to better intake cooling as well as run afore mentioned high CR's. These are two key things to making big power.

It basically boils down to why you want to run it and how well you understand it. A motor has to be developed and operated in a manor where running an alternative fuel becomes advantageous over gasoline.

 

Shifty, I've read that exact post before and I understand that. Looks like a direct copy and paste job. I don't plan on running full alcohol either. I was just thinking of trying a couple tanks. Also I will definately switch over completely if the price of gas gets to be so much that E85, is more cost efficient. Eventually gas will run out and ethanol will be the most sensible source of internal combustion fuel left.

 

Dont believe the hype.

 

You are good. It was from an old thread that I was reading at he time so I just cut and pasted it for those who may not have searched or have read that thread.

 

Despite the fact that it is not specifically designed for it, I've been using straight and blended E-85 in my half-truck for months. I get periodic P0171 DTCs which tell me that the blend is just a bit too ethanol heavy. What's really ironic is that when the errors are set and the PCM defaults to backup tables, the AFR is closer to 12.5:1, which is about stoich for ethanol.

I generally run about 60% ethanol and 40% gasoline by calculating the ethanol amounts in each by volume. When it approaches 70-75% ethanol or higher, it starts to generate the lean errors at highway cruise, but almost never around town.

Mileage is down from about 23 combined to about 21 combined, but some of that is due to seasonal changes. Winter fuel mileage is generally a little less than summer. In either case, it's less expensive overall on a cost per mile driven basis. If I could advance the timing on the PCM to take better advantage of the ethanol, I would. I'd also raise the static CR a bit to more like 11:1.

One caution is that ethanol blends in higher than 20% concentrations can be a little tougher on injectors and fuel pumps. Older injectors that may be on the edge of failure may be pushed over by using higher ethanol percentages. Early '90s Multecs seem to be particularly susceptible, but they already have known insulation issues. Bosch/RP injectors are probably more resistant.

The other thing I've noticed during warm up is the aroma of the exhaust. It smells a lot more like race gas than regular old gasoline.

GM currently has nine models in it's lineup that can use E85 with no modification. Chevy has offered flex-fuel vehicles since about 1991. No one here was paying attention, but Brazil bought them in large numbers, where a larger concentration of ethanol has been used in fuel since the 1970s. The first standard model available in North America was the S-10 trucks in 1998. My '96 eeks by with no problems other than the occasional lean error code.

I've been using 10% ethanol blends since 1976, when they first became available around here. That's been in everything from '67 Firebirds and Plymouths to lawnmowers, chainsaws, and outboards. The ONLY ethanol problem I've had in almost 30 years of using it was on that '67 Firebird. The old 2GC carburetor had become the collection point for all the sediment that the alcohol had cleaned from the fuel tank. One carb rebuild and a new filter later, and there were no problems afterward. I never used fuel line anti-freeze in the winter, since it's already in the fuel. I don't need to use injector cleaners, since the blend tends to solve the tip fouling.

 

Do you have to pass emissions testing? If so do you know what the numbers look like compared to straight gasoline.

 

I have no testing where I live (yet). EGO should be quite high (just like the sensor says it is), NOx should be moderately higher, but hopefully controlled by EGR, and CO should be controlled by the extra O² in the exhaust stream. The big question I have is CO², which is apparently a concern in some regions. I'm not sure how the extra EGO will affect CO² production/conversion. Newer vehicles are meeting emissions requirements using E85 and the same catalyst, AFAIK, so beyond mixture discrepancies, the basic system should be in compliance.

 

edit: retracted my statement after reading vaders msg.

 

I thought it was touted as a "clean" fuel. Maybe I got it backwards though. I know the biggest thing is it comes from renewable sources like corn, which is good for everyone. I think the coolest part is that if you were running pure ethanol, you would basically just be putting moonshine in the tank. That's why they add gas to it.
A sip for me and a full tank for the car

As for the "hype" that gas will eventually be gone. It's not hype. At the rate that the former communist countries are expanding, the amount of gas/oil output cannot keep up with the global demand. I'm not saying we will run out of gas in the next few years. I'm thinking ahead fifty years or so. Hopefully at that point we won't be reliant on gas as the main source of fuel and all of us with our "OLD" cars will have all we want.