I can't seem to find my thread that I started right before the collapse of TGO, (and I can't search for it either so...), anyway, i'll keep on firing questions then:

building a budget 350, block has been all machined up
-I've installed the crank, plastigauged the mains, seemed good, so I put on the main caps with clevite bearing guard (aka strawberry bearing jam), and oil, and torqued it up.
-I gapped the rings, and installed them on the pistons, and installed the pistons. (dipped the ring area in a coffee can of 30w oil...) more bearing guard on the conn rod bearings.

now here is the start of the q's: I'm building this motor with "how to build an sbc" by david vizard, and there's a few points missing, that I've only heard about;
-rod side gap - should I measure this with the nuts loose? then keep the feeler gauge inbetween the rods to hold them out, then torque the nuts down?
-if i'm using the same pickup (new oil pump), and pan, do I still need to measure pickup to pan distance? I don't have any clay or whatever, so that's why I asked, and didn't just do
-tack weld the pickup tube to the oil pump?
-I didn't tear down this part of the motor, so i'm not sure what it looked like before... oops. I'm also about to put on the oil filter connecting...thingy... ahem. I got the idea there's supposed to be a spring in there, but I only have the 2 bolts, and the...thingy.

Thanks for reading all that, any tips are very welcome (or for something that I will be running into soon...)

 

You don't have to do anything special to measure rod side clearance. Just bolt them up, and stick a feeler gauge in there. They should slide freely from side to side along the crank, with basically no force whatsoever required.

Yes you need to check your oil pump assembly Putting the pickup on the pump is precisely what creates the possibility for error. You could either use clay; or use a square and measure the height from the oil pan flange, and the height of the pan, and set it that way. Another way is to put the pickup on the pump, make sure it's set WAY too far out; set something like a piece of metal about 1/4 - 3/8" thick on top of it; set the pan on it; and gently bump it into place until the pan rails touch the block, which will of course rotate the pickup inward; then take it off and weld or braze the pickup to the pump. DO NOT heat up the pump with the bypass valve and spring installed; take them out first!!! Then when you put it back together, install the Mr Gasket spring, part number 26, instead of the stock spring from Melling or whoever.

No spring involved with the oil filter adapter, except the one that's part of it. Just the little aluminum piece with its little valve.

 

ah, so I will have to open up my new oil pump eh? ok, fair enough. It's a melling M55 if that makes a difference.

So with the rods on the crank, nuts tightened up, I should still be able to slide them around eh? Ok, then i'll measure it tightened up.

Thanks

 

If there is a big box store near you take a peek in the toy section for the $1 playdoh stuff if you need the clay.

 

ah, I see what you mean by the oil pump spring, in the side, with the little metal rod that holds it in place? Looks yellowish green, I can assume that's a standard spring then. I guess I can just drive this pin out, replace the spring, then maybe loctite the pin back in?

should any of these bolts (oil filter adapter, oil pump, oil pump body) have the threads lubed? loctite?

 

(Check the sticky at the top of the forum for search tips.)

 

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the lower three are mandatory

 

thanks grumpy, i've got one of those, and I think I saw smokeys book somewhere recently, i'll have to pick it up!

I'm still waiting for my cam to get here, as that's my stop point.
I tack welded the pickup in place, and loctite'd the oil pump body bolts. I lost my oil pump driveshaft, so i'm buying a new one with a steel collar.

-is there a difference in assembly lubes? I used clevite bearing guard on main/rod bearings, can I use it on the cams lobes/bearing surfaces? lifter (top and bottom)? pushrod tips and rockers? dist gear? (any other place that i'm missing, that should have assembly lube?)

 

Measure piston to valve clearence.
You do not need to worry about welding the pickup to the pump. This is an argued point. The roll pin method is the best and safest way to make sure the pickup does not move. The pump is made of a porus material. Over time with heating/cooling and vibration the weld will fail and the pickup could fall out.

 

Hey Sonix!

Good luck with your build! Sounds like you're doing things right to me. I used the red assembly lube on bearings, dist gear and used the moly (white stuff) break in lube on the cam lobes. I coated my cylinders with STP and installed the pistons - or assembly lube is fine. I never measured rod side clearance or checked valve to piston clearance, and I was fine....for a street engine.

But if you're installing a radical cam, and not installing it "Straight up" i.e. 4 adv. or retarded or it's a stroker motor, then all bets are off...check it. My point is, IF the machining was done properly and you're installing the proper bearings, rings etc., and everything's clean - then it should work out fine if you follow your book and put it together like it came apart!.

 

I felt pretty silly when I slid my play-doh across the walmart checkout at age 49. Just be glad it isn't a "feminine sanitary product" or headlice treatment. It works great for checking air cleaner to hood clearance on something with a low hood like, oh, a third gen Firebird! Sounds like you are on track with the plastigage. FWIW, the last time I used plastigage it revealed an egg-shaped rod big-end that would have gauranteed disaster. If your cam doesn't come with assembly lube GET SOME! A lot of people get in a hurry to hear what the new cam will sound like and find themselves looking at round lobes later.
Put an oil pressure gauge on the engine for birthing and don't idle the engine for 2 hours straight when you get it fired. (most people do because they are so happy to hear it finally running) Read up on break-in procedure for rings. You only get one shot at this with no "do-overs"
These tips will come in handy when you ask the engine to do this:
http://home.mindspring.com/~andywarr...s/100_0584.mpg
like I do mine.

 

Supervisor42 - I checked out the link - sounds great! What did ya dyno at if ya don't mind me askin?

 

Need to change the timing curve. With open exhaust you can't hear it detonate. So I have the timing "very conservative" (about 50 HP worth) to keep from hurting the motor. BTW, take out the air filter element and you take out 10 HP.

 

So you were still tuning? Just curious because I plan on getting my car on a chassis dyno in the next couple of months. I expect it to be substantially lower than the FW dyno - but hopefully not too much lower...but I know most engines tested on dynos (including mine) were tested under ideal conditions - ie velocity stack, open headers, great cooling etc...

different story when it's in the car with a more restrictive exhaust etc.

 

That depends on the dyno. Any dyno that shows RWHP and FWHP is "guessing" at the flywheel numbers. Have to be careful not to touch off the "mustang vs dynojet" debate. The operator said that the loss to the wheels for some cars with automatic transmissions can be as high as 30%. That means that an engine with 300 at the crank would have 200 at the wheel. There are so many factors. Alternator pulling 2 cooling fans eats 6-8 hp, one that is just maintaining a battery and running the coil draws less than 1/2 hp. Don't forget the waterpump, it ain't in the engine dyno numbers either. (you didn't get a high-flow?) Just be prepared to see less than 80% of the hp you paid for at the wheel. Standard trannies lose less than autos. The main purpose of a dyno is you can precisely compare before and after a change, not measure engine horsepower. I'll make a deal. Post your numbers on this thread after you get it run and I'll post mine.

 

Maybe you mis-read, or I didn't explain this right...

When I said " I expect it to be substantially lower than the FW dyno". That's all I had done to my engine prior to installing in the car.. I realize it's a new ballgame with drivetrain loss etc.....- Everyone understands its a flywheel HP/TQ number at the optimum conditions.

This chassis dyno I'm about to get will establish a "basline" for further mods. Due to all the conditions you stated above (drivetrain loss - etc.), I don't expect I'm putting out 390 HP or 490 TQ at the rear wheels....

I'm aware of how a chassis dyno works, and how to use it, and what the numbers tell me. Not here to debate about brands.

-You want to compare numbers??

 

You're right. I misread.
I still don't know what "percent loss" a typical 3rd gen drive train has. Which your run will be helpfull with. Atleast you know your numbers at the crank before you go. It would be nice to see "actual" flywheel numbers related to wheel numbers for a change.

 

Right. I needed to get a read on the HP before I put the "homemade" exhaust on it and see if it is going to work.

 

No problem. Another part of what I was saying, is that in reality, the flywheel numbers don't mean squat either once I dropped that engine in the car with a more restictive exhaust, acessories etc. - So it can't even be assumed that those numbers are there!

So far as drivetrain loss, I've heard 20-30 percent is in the ballpark, but can be more depending on trans and rear types. Just add that one on too!

Man, you gotta be pullin some serious fwhp to pull 400 hp at the rear wheels!!

I'm hoping for 340 at rwhp AFTER I install the retro roller - and that might be a lofty goal!

 

Driveline inefficiency (loss) varies widely. It is commonly known that Ford 9" axles suffer about 5-6% more loss than a Dana 60 or Saginaw 12-bolts due largely to the compromised angle of the pinion to the center of the ring gear (high offset). Automatic transmissions have inherent pumping losses and frictional losses due to the necessarily tight toleranced of clutch discs and shells. Some designs are worse than others, and even identical designs can have different losses. Even manual transmissions are ineficient. The loss varies depending on type. Then there are normal frictional losses from bearings through the system, the tires themselves, and driveline/shaft angle, all of which vary as load varies. Then there are accessories and exhaust losses.

There is no magic number.