I have a 1990 Firebird with the 3.1 and want to leave it as close to origional as possible while adding a little horsepower. Its in near mint condition, 1" rip in the drivers seat, airbag cover is curling, one headlight doesn't go up, but otherwise it beautiful! It has pw, pdl, hatch rel, fog lts, and aero package. If anyone can point me in the right direction as I don't have much experience in turbo, although I can build a motor I want to be able to return to stock easily. I bought(stole) her last week for $2600. Any info would be appreciated.

 

2600 isn't really a big steal, my friends dad just sold a 88 z28 5.0tpi for 1500, fresh paint new tires and beautiful interior.

Having an original engine in our cars really doesn't make them worth more, i think a turbo conversion would make it more valuable than it having a 350 or just the stock motor IMO.

 

If you saw it for being all orig. and I believe its #19 for 1990, and only has 88,000 mi. It was bought new in Sarasota, FL(still in FL = NO RUST) for just under $14,500. It came with the origional window sticker and owner's manual. Under the hood is as clean as when it was made. I'll get some pics soon, I haven't even had time to wash it, I towed it 270mi. on a trailer so it's a little dirty now and its rainy season But back to the turbo, how much boost can the factory fuel delivery handle before running too lean, and any easy retro fits from say like the 3.1 fwd turbo?

 

just throw a bottle on and be done with it

 

It does have forged piston/crank, but I don't like the idea of NOS in this one.

 

My wife drives it and I don't want her to come home and tell me the button stuck =0

 

 

thats easy to fix just don't put any nitrous in it until you want to race or just have a remote bottle opener and keep the remote with you, just don't bump the button!

Still i think unless this car is parked in a garage for another 20 years i don't think it's value will increase that much if at all.

And for a stock fuel system on a turbo i'd say 3-5 psi boost which should add about 20-30% more power but don't quote me.

 

How bout with larger injectors, and would that rquire a new prom?

 

Yes. Even adding the turbo will require a new chip.

 

Check out the Turbo Grand Prix forums. You're looking at something similar.

You'll need to figure out different plumbing and turbo location, but a lot of the tuning will be the same.

If you have access to pipe benders, welders, and such and know a few things about performance engine principles, it's easy. Otherwise it will get VERY expensive VERY fast.

 

I don't have a pipe bender large enough to accomidate even exhaust, but I am mechanically inclined, have a welder, and will buy exhaust "doughnuts" for bends. Will the prom, injectors, etc. from a fwd GP work? Or should I look into the 3.8 turbo? I'm hoping to find as many stock parts in wrecking/salvage yard as possible as I have 4 kids and I'm studying to take the FL state certified GC exam.

 

If you're worried about cost and simplicity, give your head a shake, and do what every other Joe Blow does... Gets a 350!

Any V6 combo (turbo, nitrous, NA) in a 3rd gen will either be slow, extremely expensive, or very unreliable. Most likely a combination of these. Before anyone jumps down my throat here, the exception is 3.8L turbo motors, and unless stock in the car, would be pricey to get and harder to set up then a 350 would be. Dollar for dollar, hour for hour invested, a 350 is the winner/ most popular for a reason.

 

I am with sonix.

I don't want to sound like a pissimist but remember they used 3.1's in luminas. The engines suck, I'm sorry. I have a 305 and think it sucks so, get a 350 or better yet a 400.

 

If you do a turbo, there will be almost no documentation to help you and it will be very expensive and difficult. On the other hand you will be the only on in your area that has one. I would only recommend doing this if you enjoy spending lots of time and money on your car, and don't mind the fact that it still may not be all that fast.

If you have the time and money for a turbo, you may want to consider installing an LS2 instead. It will be near the same difficulty and expense, but you will end up with a vehicle that has 400 hp at the crank that still can pass emissions and gets over 20 MPG on the highway (I know, in Florida you don't have emissions, but in case you did...) Also, it would give you an extremely solid platform to start from if you wanted to build further and you would still be highly original. Just my opinion.

 

I get such a kick out of posts like this.

 

84l69ta, why? The LS2 is going to take up my entire budget just for the motor (unless you have seen one for less that 6 grand) that doesn't leave me much for a tranny and other swap parts. Although that's for all accessories and ecm so it's not a bad deal. If I am going to change the motor I want something new or rebuilt, too many times I'v changed motors for people (at their request) because they wanted bigger and didn't care that the larger one was junk! I'm looking for somethig fun and new to me, I guess that maybe if I had posted this in the V6 threads I would have gotten more positive response to what I'm trying to accomplish. A car that's UNIQUE, not like everyone else. Not to mention there wouldn't be major surgery to use a turbo, same trans, x members, motor mounts, accessories, the list goes on...

But on a positive note the coolest swap was no piece of junk! We took a 1986 Mustang LX and squeezed a 350 bored .10 over, roller cam, ported polished, 650cfm carb, NOS fogger, mated to the 400 trans. The car even used the factory 8.5 rear, and the car was sold with the rear in it!
Ran 11.80 on the motor and 10.33 on the juice.
The "Moustang" was painted - you guessed it CHEVY ORANGE!

 

A decent turbo setup for the v6 would pobably cost about the same as the LS2. Even the LS1 would still be original, if you wanted to save money, and it still is a highly reliable platform to start from.

 

I think I'm going to talk to this guy in the v6 folder, he wants to change his 85 5.0HO to a v6....even trade he he he...

 

Just found a 295hp 2005 5.4 liter w/4l60e trans, roller cam and lifters, ecm, wiring, ALL accessories, y pipes and cats with 10 miles for $3450. Is that sweet or what?

 

Awesome, go for it.

 

a turbo on the 3.1 does wonders, ive did my entire system for just over 800$'s.
everything came from ebay,granted u wont see the kind of power im making,due to the fact i have a nowere near stock engine,but with that said a bone stock 3.1 @7psi will get u over 255hp.i myself and one other meber have run 12 psi on stock engines.there are atleats 4 memebers on the v6 board including myself that have done the turbo thing.

 

no it does not,ive got huge injetcors with a stock ecm running in the 12's

roflmao at extremly slow/unreliable and exspensive

there is a crapload of documentiotion on how to drop a turbo on a 2.8/3.1 in the v6 section i for one wrote up a copmplete howto in the v6 section

once again its cheap to do

 

If it was so great and easy, there'd be more than 4 people who've done it. I'm guessing hundreds of people have got 350's in their 3rd gens, which once had a V6, compared to the 3-4 that used a turbo. (just on TGO, in the world those #'s are much higher obviously)

$800? You're skilled and lucky. I highly doubt most people could recreate it. Besides, 255HP is nothing huge, for a V6 yes, but that's a baseline starting point for a V8, it's not even competitive.

Don't get me wrong, I'm highly jealous/impressed by what you've done with your car dave, I just don't think it's something to recommend to others with less skill.

For what you've spent on YOUR car you could probably have that kind of performance with a V8 and for cheaper. Do you agree? It's the uniqueness that's worth it.

 

granted there is alot of work done to my car,the 3.1 put down over 400 hp.but all the work thats been done,can be done by anyone who has mechanical abilitys,im not saying anyone can do it,but it really isnt all to hard.
when i started mine i had 0 knowledge of turbocharghing.which cost me buying a few wrong parts.the highest single costing piece was my forged pistions which i spent way more then i had too.i spent 3x more then i had to to only cause i went with a diff brand.but u odnt even need them unless ur looking to run super high amounts of boost.12 psi is ok for the stock pistions.pretty much the safe limit though.@12 psi u could be looking at 300 hp.with ported heads 350+.as far as the heads mine were only self ported.
in the v6 section i give a full parts and price list.my setup can be recreated step by step for the same price.whats really worth it is stomping on a modded v8 car then having them relize they just got whooped by a v6.not to mention gas milage,driving around town my gas milages is still the same,on the highway my gas milage improved.i owned 3 3rdgens.one was a highly modified 355,the other was a bored and stroked 305.driving the v6 wa smore fun the either of the v8 cars.one of the reason i sold both v8 cars.
on a limited budget sticking with the v6 is deff a better idea,now if u want something going to make 500+ hp a sbc is a better idea
though im deff aiming for well over the 500hp mark with the 3.4 with the aluminum canted valve heads

 

Finally someone worth asking questions on the subject...

If anyone is interested in the motor I found heres the web page, he has lots of awsome motors/deals... "spengines.com"

Back to you dave, I didn't think the fact prom would handle 12psi, but I knew that it could handle at least 6. You said that you needed forged pistons, doesn't the 3.1 come with forged pistons or only the crank? I'm all for the idea of 225hp without the hassle of removing the trivetrain. Not to mention how much easier it is to dent your car trying to squeeze a big motor under the hood. I already have the 700r4 and a posi rear so I'm going to check your stuff uot on the v6 forum...

 

the maf system 85-89 can handle 6-7 psi stock(with a simple step up in injector size) ive run 18 psi on my stock 89 ecm using monster injectors,adjustable fp reg/and an fmu.

the 90-92 ecms will handle upto 14.7 psi stock but requires u a simple map sensor chang
only the rods/cranks are forged in the 60* engines,the pistions are cast,off the shelf trw forged pistions can be had fairly cheap,i piad over 500 for a one off custom set from J.E..but the forged trw's are just fine,j.e,was just personal preference for me

 

[quote=daves12secV6;3054598]the maf system 85-89 can handle 6-7 psi stock(with a simple step up in injector size) ive run 18 psi on my stock 89 ecm using monster injectors,adjustable fp reg/and an fmu.

FMU? And you mean that the ecm was totally stock, and would upgrading make a big diff?

The ecm question was answered in your thread, but still fmu?
Yes you do need to correct your typos, hard to read at some points, but great article. Have you thought of actually packaging a product like this for us v6 owners? If you used a bender you could make all of these pipes with a few connectors and even have them chromed! This is perfect for me as I like welding

I know the location is optimal in our cars, but in South FL we have rush 3hours (7-10 am 4-7 pm) and would like to know if youve had overheat problems with the turbo unit being so close to the radiator?

 

[QUOTE=firstfirebird;3055023]yes my ecm is stock no reprogramming.fmu=fuel management unit,it raises fuel preasure a set amount for each pound of boost,this is needed since the ecm cannot ad the correct amount of fuel after a certian boost level.though prper ecm tunning and getting rid of the fmu i would prolly see more power,i just dont know enough or have the means to burn chips yet,though i am learning,and shouldnt be to far off from doing so though

i have thought about it,but i dont have the right bender to bend up the pipes,the bender i have will put kinks in the pipes,i could one off each kit out of mandrel bends,but this would raise the price alot.another reason i wont sell kits is i did mine using some used parts from ebay.i dont see ppl wanting to spend 1,500 for buying some used parts,if i were to do the same kit with mandrel bends and all brand new parts,that cost would go up 2-2.5x

the only time i had an overheating problem is when my fan died.but i highly recomend a 160* thermostat,and wiring in a manual fan switch,withthat done and removal of my ac condensor i can sit in traffic with the car idling with the fan on and never get over 165*,at wide open throttle with the fan off i see about 185*

yeah i need to go back and fix alot of typos in my write up,just havent had time to do that or go back and finally finish it yet.

 

I'm not giving up my a/c here in FL! But I'm glad you wrote that thread. I'm planning my plumbing now. I didn't realize it was INTERCOOLED! Where did you end up putting the charcoal filter, and did you eliminate the coolant res. (mines next to ch.filter)?

 

i tossed the charcol can completly,and just vented the one line running back to the tank.I made a custom aluminum resivor that is mounted in the front next to my intercooler(still need to take pics of that),U dont have to lose the ac,i just dont like ac in cars,so i ditched mine.lol i just cant stand driving in the summer with the windows up.

 

EVERY DAY is summer here, it just rains daily from May to Sept!

 

Is the 3.1 a motor that you can change the pistons in the car -i've seen people do this before- or am i going to have to pull it? It is a 1990 prom, @ 14.7 and some forged pistons will this thing be a beast? I have a guy here that does some awsome headwork....hmmm.....can you enlarge the valves in the 3.1?

 

if u jack the engine up enough to pull the oil pan u can swap the pistions out,if not ur gonna have to pull it,as dfar as valves im sur eu could swap in larger ones but im really not sure,ud have to goto a machine shop and see what they say

 

All the info I could find on the 3.1 says it's a 60* engine and that the factory pistons are indeed forged then lathe turned, here's a link....
A.R.I. Engines GM 60-degree V6 - History & Information
Where did you get your info that the engine IS NOT 60* and doesn't have forged pistons?
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It's amazing the wrong info you can find on the internet.

 

Well I decided to go turbo, as some of you know, here's some pics..


What I spent so far:
Turbo : $170 NEW
Intercooler : $75 USED
Powdercoated TB : $30 REFINISHED (won't make me go faster, but I though it was cool )
Still on the shopping list:
Blow Off Valve
Wastegate
Fuel Management Unit
Larger injectors
Intake/exhaust tubing
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I'll keep all the skeptics updated - Driveway Turbo Done Cheap!
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Would a MOD move this to the Power Adder folder?