jcisthechamp05

I'm not sure if this is the correct section to put this thread in, but its pretty much what the title said. I have a '87 IROC, 5.7 tpi, minor bolt-ons, 700r4 with under 20,000 on it, 235/(not sure off hand rite now 60?/16's all around. Me and my friend were crusing around, it was alittle wet out so we hit up the top of the mall parking lot (it was 1amish so it was empty) and we started just messing around, and I couldn't spin it around, it felt like it wanted to but then everytime i would try doing it with me cutting the wheel to the left it just felt like right when it was about to cut and go into a full spin it went nose down on the passenger side and just didnt do it, then I tried the other side and it just wouldnt go and all night I just couldn't do it, is there a certain trick to this? This is the first camaro I've owned so I'm not sure if this is common or anything but I also have a '69 charger with a 440, 4.30's & 295/50/15's and that thing will just go on and on all day long if I wanted to . Oh and btw my friend has a '89 RS with a 305 tbi in it and he was sliding the back end of his car around with ease on the wet pavement doing donuts, powerslides, etc, I just didn't understand what the hell was going on, I mean it was wet out too Anyone with some ideas??
P.s.- I don't beat on my car alot at all, and don't really intend on doing this often, but it's nice to know if I want to its there.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Will it chirp the tires if you punch it from a dead stop? Sounds like something is killing the power HARDCORE.

RaverRacerX

sounds almost like something killed ur ignition or fueling.

5678TA

did it even spin the wheels? do you have a limited slip diff?? if its an open diff then it might not spinout.. i'm not entirely sure if you can do a donut with an open diff.. from what i'm thinking, you need to break the outside tire to spin.. the cars i drive (ranger, s-10, TA) all have limitied slips in them and they can burn all day.. the ranger is a 91 that has about 140hp and takes about 13-14 second to get to 60mph and i could do a donut if i wanted to but its a lifted 4x4 and that wouldnt be too wise.. so i think your problem might be a diff.. but get input from others as i have never really done a donut.. IMO i just dont see the point..

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

after work one night, the parkin lot was wet from a rain and it gets like ice. so i took my L98 out and did some donuts...its easy. we spun around like a 720 once. i just rolled into the lot doin about 20...then cut the wheel sharp left and mashed the gas. the car spun like a tornado.

even on dry roads, it could do donuts. something is wrong with your car, either rear end or i have no clue what lol

jcisthechamp05

no no no, trust me the car breaks loose the tires all the time, I'll punch it in low(1) and spin them until second and ityll chirp the tires alomost anytime it down shifts under 25mph. I can do stand stills all day long and yes it is posi, I'm not 100% on the gears though, I think there 3.23's??
But it's like I cut the wheel and try and go into doing them and just as soon as it feels like it wants to go, it just like hits hard in the front and the back does not want to come around for some reason, I've also tried doing it the easier way numerous times (going from a stand still and just turning into it) but once again as soon as it feels like it wants to come around something happens to where it just doesnt go. I highly doubt it's fuel cut, and I'm not sure how much gas i had in the tank (if there was too much or not, defiantely not anywhere near empty tho) if it was to heavy or not. RRrrr it's just frustrating. Keep coming with opinions on what it could be.
Thanks John
----------
IMO though, I'm leaning towards it being something going on wiht the front suspension somewhere. B/c the nose just dips and almost like slams hard ont he front when I try it, but it's weird b/c it handles like a dream when I'm driving it regularly.

Bill/T/D/Y

Honestly it soundds like yer front suspensions too soft.I had a 79 cut that would smoke em all day long but wouldn spin out unless on a gravel road.I changed the back shocks for air with spacers(the H type that i can't find anywhere anymore)And a set of springs from an old ford station wagon,And changed the front shocks for some from an old model caddy springs too.The car rode a heck of alot stiffer and higher but it would spin on demand.

Air_Adam

Got a posi?

jcisthechamp05

Bill, thats what i was thinking too, something going on with the springs up front but I don't really know how to check to be 100% thats the problem

Adam, yes it is most certainly a posi

But once agian the car is really strong and pulls very hard, and I still don't have a clue on how to find out/fix the problem, b/c I think it should be doing them wiht ease.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

If I can do them in my Toyota 4x4 with an 80 hp 4 banger and 33's, you should be able to do them. Your posi might be warn out and once it transfers the weight over, the inside rear wheel will just end up spinning. It migiht still spin both in a straight line but doesn't have enough grab for that turning load.

joe350

I never had any problems doing this with both v6 f-Bodies that I owned. I believe neither had limited slip. With the 350 it should be even easier unless you are somehow cutting fuel by turning too hard. I had that problem in a 305 TBI Iroc. Whenever I would turn hard right fuel pressure would cut out almost completely, even with a new pump. This has never happened on any of my port injected engines however.

Wheel Spin

Sounds like you have one of the few third-gens that have working rear brakes.......don't hit the brake.

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

I have tried in my gf's RS and sometimes it just doesnt work. If i go fast then cut it left and punch it, itll nosedive to the front right wheel and just slide forward. Sometimes the *** end wont come around. I blame the open diff, my car its cake and itll almost always spin around.

I love donuts, i have not done them in such a long time!

jcisthechamp05

Update: I just went to go try some again last night, and it did the same thing wiht the front-end again, or it would just never even want to turn and just spin the tires out

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

You need to watch this

Tony89GTA

iTrader: (7)

ROFLMAO

Owl_

That's pretty neat getting grannies to do donuts!

Bill/T/D/Y

ya know the springs might be ok but the struts might be worh.When tryin ta 360 yer askin them ta hold up when ridin yer askin them ta float or just support.Might be the diff.Personally i'd replace both springs and struts.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Thank you stevo, for that tidbit. Your girlfriend sounds like my kinda girl, I hope she doesn't mind you mentioning that on the internet....



So, you punch it, going in a circle, and you just end up driving quickly in tight circles? That's weird, i've never, ever seen that. I'd look into the front suspension I guess, I'm drawing a blank, since I can't even picture that...

I remember doing donuts in my LG4, pretty normal, straightforward, like all other cars before in life, normal, stock cars. But with the new motor, things are a bit different, donuts are a lot easier to do, and it kicks the car around too fast, and you end up straightening out, and burning the tires...Maybe the traction is too good with mine, who knows..

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

I've never done donuts in my car, but I powerslide all over the place. Hell, I powerslide so much I was going sideways on a paved road. That's when I stopped flooring it during turns. I only need to think that I'm gonna be killed in a car once, then I trust it's abilities and let it be. Now I just drive like Speed Racer.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Something is definatly wrong with your car every thirdgen ive ever been in or seen has been a complete doughnut machine


Or perhaps its operator error ......................thats it turn in your man card

LOL

but seriously it has to be suspension related you can always try doing a brake torque and cutting the wheel and letting outta the brake that works really good too

TheScaryOne

iTrader: (3)

So, after getting my car running again yesterday (stupid heater control valve of brittley plasticey DOOM!) I decided I'd go do donuts. And yep. All I have to do is stop, turn the wheel to lock, and floor it. I got dizzy.

MrDude_1

my car is a doughnut machine... it wasnt intentional, but my mods made it that way.

1. i have tubular front lower control arms... so theres no steering stop there.
2. i have an aftermarket steering box.... so the stops are further out there.
3. i have wider front tires.
4. i have a locker.


because of all that, if i turn my wheel hard, the inside front tire will press and LOCK on the "framerail".... then the car will pivot around it.... plus the locker makes it so there is no slipping, both wheels slide the same.



it spins doughnuts so fast and easy that i can get dizzy. LOL.

jcisthechamp05

eHH, I doubt it's driver error b/c even though I'm only 19 I've aready gone through more cars then most epople in their 30's have been through. Lets see I've done donuts in a 84 monte SS, 1980 Elcamino(r.i.p.), 69 charger, even I at one point I owned a firsst gen DSM and pulled some trays from t-bell and slid them under the back tires and unleashed front wheel drive hell, and in my buddies 89 firebird(r.i.p.) yah I've had some fun

However I'm not really sure what break toque or torque break(I dont rember the name and I cant copy and paste for some reason from the previous post) is? Unless I call it something different?
It's just frustrating, I was thinking about going over the suspension in the spring and lowering it alittle bit (I think they look sexier than ever when there dropped alittle bit) I was just hhoping I'd get someone to post something like...."That same exact thing was going on with me all I had to do was....." but I guess this is very uncommon. Oh well, any else with any ideas please post, if not, I'll just have to live wiht it for now.
Thanks John

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Here since your young take some free advice dont worry about doing doughnuts learn about cars why and how they work and how to put them together and dont get frustrated when your car cant do something no car can do anything

jcisthechamp05

no no no, I understand that, I love spending time working on my car firguring out "why this does this" or "how this works", then when I have questions, I usually search on this website and usually get the answers but when I don't I post. And while I do all this work to my car, making it look nicer, spending so much time cleaning up parts that about 95% of the time won't get noticed by the other people getting into your car or around it, but you know its there and what you did feels good. But occasionally I do like to show-off when I'm with my friends, and it feels pretty good when you can take a 3600 pound machine, and just start spinning it around in circles , with the engine roaring, blowing tons of smoke from the tires and just everyone around going "wow". Idn I'm just going to keep trouble shooting everything, and reading other posts and learn more and more about it, b/c either way this is a problem wiht my car and I intend to fix it.

Casem1

Are you sure you are old enough to drive??? This sounds like something a 13 year old would say. WOW!

jcisthechamp05

Oh yah?? why is that??

sLoW'n'StEaDy

dont know, but i sure can!!

Casem1

You'll figure it out someday. Like, when you are old enough to realize that it is stupid to want to show off for your friends.

I am certain I am out-numbered on this forum and will get flamed like mad, but I really don't care. The only time I feel the need to spin my tires is when I am at the track in a burnout box. Even then, I use drag tires that need a burnout. Otherwise, I leave traction control on. I still have fun in my car, even if I am not showing off for my friends.

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

jcisthechamp05

well you're making it sound like the only reason I'm doing this is for my friends, I personally think it's pretty cool to do a burnout on command, and I don't do it recklessly, where ever I am it's either in a closed off parking lot that is wide open or something similar to that so no one is at risk of getting hurt. So what is the problem if I like to? maybe you're right, when I'm older I'll realize it was stupid to do, but why are you insulting me telling me I'm 13 b/c I choose to have fun wiht my car in a different way than you do?

jcisthechamp05

and also the reason I started this thread, is b/c I felt there was something wrong with my car and I wanted to find out what could be going on with it or if it was a common thing that other poeple would experience and obviously it's not. So if you have any thoughts and can lend some advice rather than giving me a hard time about my age, I would really liek to fix w/e issues are going on.
Thanks john

nelapse

iTrader: (17)

if you have an open diff... your only option is bagels.

sgapen

i wont be buyin a car from those grannys lol

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Who are you calling a granny exactly?

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

I guess you missed the video I posted in this thread.

kaos

It must be somehow suspension related because it is pretty damned hard not too do a donut in a V8 Camaro on WET pavement!!

jcisthechamp05

Yah thats what I'm thinking too

formula350sd

iTrader: (2)

Whoops ground control to major tom

rjt76

I would verify that you in fact spin both wheels when floored on bare tar. This sounds like my camaro with the open rear gears.

EvilCartman

iTrader: (1)

I like to verify every once in a while that both wheels are still able to spin. Just checked it again about 10 min ago

Quasi-Traction

I would chalk most of why it isn't cutting loose to one of three factors:

1) Suspension is too soft.
2) Driver error
3) Igntion/fuel/induction problem.

If you're dead set on doing a donut, take the rear sway bar off. I wouldn't reccomend it, however. I did it once on damp pavement driving my old 84 sport coupe I ended up parting out. Even with a tired LC1, 5 speed and open diff it can be done. If you watched the video you can see the advantage a Standard transmission will give you when doing this.

Donuts are fun, but Showing off for your friends is always a bad idea....Murphy's law will catch up to you eventually.

jcisthechamp05

Donuts are fun, and let me clarify, the reason I do them isnt just with my friends I think there fun to do everyonce in a while. I just got home tonight after I dropped my gf off and stopped in a parking lot, to try and figure it out again, I must of spent about 15mins in there trying it, stopping scratching my head for a minute or 2 and tried it again. I don't really like abusing my car too much so i calle it a night and still have yet to figure it out.
Also I don't need to do them enuff to take out the sway bar, I just figured it be someting I could easily do with a car with the performance it has so I thought it was a problem that I couldn't. I still have fun with it tho so not a big deal, o well for now

xlwhellraiser

iTrader: (1)

has a tired motor come across your mind. My 305 TBI that I had used to light up tires like nothing else. Than one day it just felt sluggish. 4grand later I realized its the motor. Even than, it would still spin tires on wet pavement, and doughnuts were possible. Now I have a TA with a new 305TPI, with a lopey cam (thank Jasper for that) and that car will doughnut your *** on dry pavement any day of the year. What you need to do is make sure your shocks and struts are not worn, than just replace them (anyway) and get a wonder bar... It should work. Also, you just might not be doing it right.
****, keep doing bagels untill you figure out how to do doughnuts.

I know how embarassing it could be. When my old 305 was going out, people would ask me to spin tire, and I would start, but the brakes worked and were to powerfull for the tires to spin. I drove off embarassed.

So, yes we do it for other people, but you would not have a car that you have if you did not buy it to impress somebody. I don't care how much you like it yourself, and how much fun it is to drive, in the end we all end up driving around the mall before we park, and we all end up prancing around before we reach our destination. It is just the way most of us are, and thats why we bought the dang car. If I wanted to enjoy the car I would buy a C4 with 6 speed and drive it. It does not look that good, but its fun to drive...
LOL>
Laters.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Thats kinda funny because I did them in my van when I was younger and stupider. It only had a stock 305 with 3.08 gears in it.

I actually have a link to a video of a Van doing donuts, not mine. It is the 110" wheelbase, mines is the longer 125" one. Did them just as well.

I don't think that its a lack of power from a 350 TPI.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jiaL8KhbevM

This however is my van and it can spin them at will and proves how I can do donuts. This was with the 305 TBI and 3.08 gears. P255/70/R15 tires.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Oi_n0goatA8

Gumby

donuts are easy if you got wheel spin. Problem is if you got good tires and traction..... With a peg leg the leading wheel can stick and grab while the following wheels gets all the power cause its easier to spin. Need to get them spinning ahead of time so that leading tires doesn't grab.

Though a posi will do them any time any where at any speed if your not use to driving a posi. AS both wheels getting power and traction will make them wanna walk around to the front when you want them to or not.


If ya wanna save your tires and such from fun burn outs or easier donuts
In HS I had an extra washer resivor hook in the trunk of my 76 gutlass. I used a heavy mixture of pink laundry soap and water. Had sprayers in the wheel wells.

Now the monster 350 rocket had no trouble doing them on its own but I went through tires like mad. I could do fancy burn out all day long, miles long. Just added water to keep the tread from wearing out to quick. The color of the soap will add tinit to the smoke and make it more heavy/thick.

Its all for show n e ways, why waste pricy rubber?

Fullsizewagon

Nice trick there Gumby!
I don't know if I can contribute to any solution here, but my wagon acts in a similar way. I have to watch my speed carefully before turns on wet pavement, because when it slips, it does so on the front wheels making it go straight.. If I try to bring out the rear with throttle it also tends to just go straight ahead.. I have attributed this to inferior tires and the large overhang in front (and rear) but maybe something's wrong with the geometry, and the front end would sure benefit from an overhaul..