vorgath

Well, guess the steering box conversion will have to wait. My engine died today, seems it was low on oil (may have been a blown seal, because I didn't see any oil coming out at any time).

Result was a knock, added oil after I got some, turned around to go home, and of course had to sit at idle for some time because some idiot drove at 5 mph being completely lost, my knock increased, sounded like a trashed sound, so I turned the engine off, it wouldn't start again. So I had to get it towed to my place.


What do you guys think ? Rod failure ? Valve ? However the sound didn't come from the top of the engine.


Guess my solution will have to be to pull the engine, drop in the backup engine I have saved for a rebuild, just add the intake/exhaust/valve cover gaskets, hook it up, and drive using that one for a while.

During that time I'll have to rebuild this engine.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

could be a rod bearing, i had a knock at low RPM that would go away when i reved it up. my oil press was slightly lower anyways. one way to tell is to remove the oil pan and check to see if a rod is loose. if one is loose then you can probably replace it and get on your way, but if you got the time and money it wouldnt be a bad idea to get a full engine rebuild.

but what do you mean that it wont start?...like it wont fire at all or it struggles when it fires and then dies?

vorgath

When I tried it after it died, it was identical to when you have a bad starter, yes, that bad. However I replaced the starter a while back so that wouldn't be the problem plus wouldn't explain a knock.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

then youve really spun urself a pickle. if it wont start like that then youve got a bad bearing, you can still just remove the oil pan and replace the bearing but if you got a backup engine its prob best to just use that one till you upgrade your blown one, that way theres no chance of contamination.

vorgath

So you're saying "all" it could be, is a bad main bearing on one of the connecting rods ?


The backup engine has 190,000 miles on it, burnt a little bit of oil, but was only removed due to my buddy dropping in a L98 block instead.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

You might want to consider yanking it out, flipping it over and just crank-kitting it, and throwing it back in. An easy afternoon's work and less than $300 in parts. If the rest of it is good, that is. Head gaskets, valves, cam lobes, etc. And of course as long as it doesn't have metal shavings all in everything. If it didn't run too long after the bearing tore up, and it didn't tear up the rod, you might get off easy.

vorgath

Might have been a few days since the bearing wore out, I have exhaust shields vibrating too, so sometimes it's hard to determine exactly when something starts, and where it's coming from.

Crank-kitting, you mean getting a new crankshaft plus bearings ?

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

I'd pull that oil pan and see if the oil pump pick up screen was clogged or fell off before passing judgement. There's no doubt that sofa's ideal is the cheapest route, but before plunking down the cash I'd want to know what caused the first failure and where the oil went. Otherwise you'll follow Sofa's advice and possibly end up in the same predicament in the near future.

vorgath

Yeah once I have the engine out, and have dropped the other one in, I'm going to take a look at what happened, since I don't feel like spending too much on a LO3.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

A rod knock doesn't mean "bad bearing, buy new $30 set of bearings and you're done". It means your crank, at least one journal, is pooched. New bearings aren't going to save you.
A crank kit is the crank (duh), and bearings. It's either that, or use your spare motor I guess.

5678TA

check your valves.. one of mine almost completely came off and sounded like i threw a rod.. didnt start either.. who knows, it could be the problem.. but dont take my word for it.. i run a solid flat tappet cam..

vorgath

Well could a valve be caused by lack of enough oil in the engine ?

vorgath

I did actually have a problem with either a sensor or something, while driving longer distances sometimes the check engine light came on, but it's been happening on and off for maybe a year or more, but has been a bit more recently, but all it took was stop the car and restart and it was fine.

Gramps

iTrader: (1)

what you describe there sounds like the EGR valve, on long drives the EGR will come on, but if it doesnt work then your comp will flash the code. it only comes on when cylinder temp gets too hot, usually at higher RPM. thats completely unrelated to the bad bearing but it should be fixed, it can affect your engines performance.

Gumby

hydrolic lifter don't work well without oil. Could of easily collasped one-two.
Usually the front two cylinders, valve train that takes the abuse of low on oil.

seen few like that.

Gotta check your oil more often, if it leaks or not.
Forget what folks think about ya poppin the hood.
Allot of folks would rather die then let people see them pokin around under the hood. Like some how that makes your car or you look bad.

vorgath

Oh trust me, I don't care about popping the hood, did it every time I drove when my battery was going bad, had to disconnect it all the time.


But yeah somehow it went low on oil, so .. I guess I'll see.


Could a bad timing chain cause anything like this ?

Gumby

Only ever had one go bad in a 80 V8 2nd gen Camaro, Only problem was I couldn't keep it timed right.

Maybe check your crank balancer, always been a rumor the stock rubber ones can crank and throw rubber out. Making motor off balance.

vorgath

What was happening for a long time was that sometimes, when at idle, the engine rpm's would go up and down a little bit, like hmmm maybe not like surging, but almost a tiny bit erratic.

When I drop the other engine in I'm not going to re-ring it, but I'll change all gaskets, new waterpump, new timing chain and cover.

How do you change the distributor gear ?

I have the LT1 cam laying around in the garage but not sure if I'll use it right now.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

The eratic RPM's could've been caused by a number of things including burnt valves. It sounds like your motor has a lot of miles on it. It might be time to rebuild it or replace it with something better.

vorgath

By now it has hmmm 135,000 or something like that, but of course it depends on how the previous owner(s) took care of it.

My buddy's old 305 has 190,000 on it, but I'll just replace gaskets and drop it in.


I don't feel like spending money on 305's, however right now I just can't afford getting a 350, so the 305 will have to do for now, while I save up for a junkyard run, and that engine, 350 or bigger, will get the real works.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

I think everybody here has been in a similar spot before. You could run a smaller comp cam, some cheap Vortec heads with a decent intake and probably be happy with the performance. Best of all, most of the parts can be swapped onto a 350 when you can afford it. Good luck.

vorgath

Thanks.

Yeah tomorrow I'll be removing the rest of the accessories from the engine, disconnecting the fuel system and exhaust as well, plus disconnecting the engine from the tranny.

After that, waiting for an engine hoist, and hopefully middle of next week the other engine will be in. Still need to replace the gaskets on that one.

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

vorgath

Talked to a buddy of mine, he said it could have been that my valve seals blew, oil went down in the cylinders and what happened was the rocker broke ?


So I think I'll take the heads off before I remove the entire engine and check it out.


If that's the problem, how would I fix it ?

Replace valve seals, one rocker, possibly one pushrod and one valve ?
And if the piston doesn't have any marks on it from the valve, should that be it ?

You can remove the block itself by using an engine hoist, correct ? Never taken an engine out before so not quite sure where I would hook up the hoist to (once I get the hoist over to my house that is)

iroczracer07

iTrader: (2)

It could be that you blew a valve seal, but that still doesn't explain what happened to the oil. The oil pan is right underneath the rotating assembly, so the oil still should be in the pan. Where the oil went has been my biggest concern. If the seals are bad, you would need to pull the heads off to replace the seals and valve. Having it torn apart this far already, it'd be wise to just take both heads to a machine shop and have them give 'em a valve job. That would cure your seal problem and probably restore some lost performance as well. Like I said in the beginning, finding out what went wrong and why is more important than just fixing that. Fixing all the problems will ensure that it doesn't happen again.

vorgath

Yeah I've been thinking about it too, WHERE did the oild go ? Still waiting for an engine hoist though.

ResurrectingZ

No rumor, its fact indeed. Had it happen to me before and I was speechless...

vorgath

What would the damage be, if the balancer got wrecked ?

5678TA

did you take the valve covers off yet?? its the easiest thing to do.. and they will come off eventually.. less work later, and maybe the problem could be under there=no need to pull the motor..

vorgath

I may do it today, problem is I have no room in the garage and we got some semi-annual rain all week day going on here *L*

vorgath

Dumb question but ... can you push a car with the engine out and transmission still in the car ?

Apeiron

Depends how you hold the transmission up with no engine in the car.

vorgath

That's what I was wondering about hmmmm because when I remove the engine I may have to push the car around the front of the housing again, because I have no room in the garage for it.


How could I support it ? Ratchet action straps ? Tighten it down that way ?

Apeiron

Why not just take the transmission out?

vorgath

I just want to take the engine out and replace it with the other one.


I need to find out where the oil went.

5678TA

i say make a rolling platform and put the tranny on that.. all you need is a piece of plywood, and some old casters.. if you dont have any casters, then look elsewhere.. a rolling shop stool?? take em off, its free..

OR if you have a creeper, put some rags on it and put the tranny on there.. no need to worry about holding the trans up.. and trust me, its not very hard to drop a tranny.. crossmember, torque arm, speedo sender, oil cooler, shift linkage..

vorgath

OK, but how do I get it out though, the car won't be on a lift.

shaggy56

Jack stands. They are failry cheap anywhere you go.

vorgath

My jack(s) won't raise the car THAT high.

I understand what you guys are getting at, but I'm trying to avoid it, because I have only a few hours to do it and then I have to move the car to the front of the house again.

Not trying to take more and more parts out of the car, unless absolutely necessary.

So ... how can I secure the transmission ?

shaggy56

I have taken out a transmission connected to a transfer case in an S10 on jack stands so i know it can be done. If you need additional height with your jack just get a block of wood.

5678TA

pipe on frame rails with chains maybe?? or loads of tiewire..

Apeiron

It doesn't have to be that high. You only need somewhere between a foot and a foot and a half to get it out.

You're going to end up lowering the transmission anyway to get the engine out. It's not any more work to take it out from underneath the car so you can move it.

vorgath

And now I'll have to disconnect the driveshaft too so I can push the car.

Apeiron

Four bolts hold the driveshaft in. Hardly a major effort to remove it. You needed to remove the driveshaft anyway to pull the transmission back far enough to get it off the dowel pins on the block to pull the engine out.

vorgath

Might be a major deal, last time the U joints got replaced I had a shop check them first (for free) and when I tried taking them off, me and my buddy couldn't remove them, I think the shop had overtightened them, on purpose of course.


Now if my engine's seized, will I even be able to turn it over to loosen the flywheel bolts, one by one ?

Apeiron

The only way to find out is to try.

vorgath

How much does it usually cost to:

1) Have the crankshaft reground (due to spun bearing)

2) Crankshaft with rods, rings and pistons, balanced (with piston/rod/ring balancing done myself)



I think I'll plan on getting those things done with the engine which is now "wrecked"

1320_Guy

iTrader: (3)

I have removed plenty motors without taking the driveshaft out or touching the transmission (other than taking the belhousing/torque converter bolts out) The motor only has to come up enough to clear the mounts and then an 1" or so forward. The last time i did it with the radiator in the car.

Once it is out the easiest way is to get a short bar that will fit across the framerails and use ratchet straps to hold it in place wile you move the car around.

vorgath

1320_Guy

vorgath

Alright, bought myself an engine hoist, unfortunately I had to take a cab home, and believe it or not, they charge an extra $20 for transporting boxes !!! What difference is it between mass and size of boxes compared to a 60 year old grandma at the airport with four or five HUGE suitcases on wheels ?


Anyway, I decided I'll remove the engine WITH the transmission, to make it easier, because I'm not sure the old engine will turn over.


Now what parts will I need when attaching the transmission to the other engine ? Any gaskets, seals, anything ? I'll probably go ahead and change out the u-joints while I'm at it (got those somewhere in the garage)