after all the problems Ive had with trying to get this motor up and running...which I have.....other than the exhaust which I was going to do this friday but cant now cause of my new problem..

I have a freaking KNOCK in the motor and I cant pin point where its coming from cause I still have open headers and its to ****ing loud to hear anything

the motor only has 40 miles of drive time on it and that was just around the block and up to town which is only 3 miles up the road and about 3 hrs run time in my garage.

I cant figure out where its coming from but Im pretty sure it on the top end cause I can hear it from the top of the motor....I can also feel it when I put my hand on the intake or the valve covers....more or less on the drivers side of the motor. I cant really explain it...and I dont think the knock goes with the rpms as I give it gas....its at its loudest during idle. Oil pressure is good...oil level is good.....I just dont know where to look or what it is...Im not a machanic so I have no idea what its is....
I noticed the knock or noise after I had went about 3/4 thottle one afternoon coming back from a car show in town...other than that I have never been that far with the throttle....
I have cranked the car up while on jack stands and went under the car and put my ear right up on the oil pan I cant hear the knock from under the motor.

So I give up!....and I was all ready to put exhaust and have a fun summer.

any ideas?

heres the poor guy sitting waiting on the doctors!

 

You wouldn't happen to have full roller rockers(the bigger type, especially like the summit brand) because I bought some with those valve covers, aluminum polished type, and the rockers were hitting so bad that I couldnt even get the covers on, had to grind the rockers to get the covers to go on, and then while it was running they were still hitting, so took the covers off and saw where they were hitting and ground where needed. After that it really quietened down the motor, other than the cam and solid lifters noises though :P...

that may or may not be your problem maybe someone with more experience on engine noises could chime in.

 

nah its not the rockers....cause the noise was not there until after I went 3/4 throttle....I also have comp magnum rockers.

 

Pull your valve covers off and check your rockers/valve lash. I had the exact same problem as you had running the Comp Pro Magnums. It was running for about 2 weeks and I went WOT with it and then backed off and it started. Took the valve covers off, notice that the lash was off. So, I fixed that, put everything back together, been running fine for 9k. Just one of those things that will work itself out. Its not the 3/4 throttle that got ya, its probably the rpms that it was at. I only took mine to 4500 rpms when it did it so....don't feel bad. I would look there first.

By the way, sweet engine. Glad to see if come together.

 

I can feel and hear the knock/noise in the motor/block...its not really coming from the rocker covers.....if the rockers were out of lash...that would make a ticking sound......I think...ive heard rocker noise and this is not that....I dont think..

what else could it be? if it was rods or crank..that would be really loud? what about bearings, lifters? hell I dont know...

could I machanic be able to tell me what it is? would they be able to to know just from the sound?

 

without any exhaust it's hard to tell anything. but a local mechanic probably could give you a hint to what he thinks.

 

Take what the mechanic thinks with a grain of salt though. He may just be trying to get you to bring the car in so he can start charging you.
Get an automotive stethoscope. You'll be able to pinpoint the location with that.

 

I took the drivers valve off and checked the rockers and they all are tight on the valves and springs.....so I dont know

I'll go to the store tomorrow and get me one of those automotive stethoscope and see if I can hear where its coming from even with the loud *** headers.

 

You let it idle in your garage for 3 hours? You know you need load on the motor to seat the rings properly, right?

That being said, if it's your top end somewhere it's probably fixable without tearing down the motor, and comp pro mags are ****ing LOUD. Mine are set about 1/16th past zero and they're really, really loud.

 

Friend of mine had a knock in his engine and it sounded like it was coming from the middle. Turned out to be a roller lifter no longer really rolling all that well and missing needle bearings. He thought it was a rod knock but it didn't sound deep enough for it to be that.

 

OK!...I brought a machanic friend of mine to the house and he says its a ROD or ROD bearings. when I fired it up he heard the sound and put his hand right under the number1 primary header up against the block and said he could feel the sound right there...I did it and felt the same...he says the motor has to come out and tighten the rod bolts and or check for bearing clearance and make sure it ok...he says if it hasnt yet egg shaped...if so hen thats a diffenent story...and more work...says he can do it for me in my garage....

no how the hell did that happen?


I CANT BELIEVE THIS!

 

mixed up rod caps, put them on backwards and/or incorrect torque of rod bolts.

 

 

even if its just the rod bearings or whatever.....would It all have to be re-balanced again? ...he says he can do it in my garage......but I woke up this morning thinking everything will have to be re-balanced and I would have to take it to a machine shop for all that.

yeah this sucks!!!..........I feel like just giving up.....I cant believe I have to take that engine all back out....and it took me so long to get it sitin pretty in the bay.

 

No need to rebalance if it is bearings. Replace and roll. Even if the rod or piston is bad,,, you would only need to match the weight for that one rod and or piston. So,,, he can do it in the garage and at the worse you'll just have to take the rod and/or piston to the machine shop.

One more time,,,, when you get it back together,,, quit f-ing around with it uncapped. Don't even fire it up until you're ready to make the trip to a muffler shop. In fact based on your track record I'd suggest having it towed to the muffler shop and firing it off there after they get the exhaust on it. That way if there are any little noises,,,, you can/should be able to hear them and do something about them before they become big noises.

 

any sure fire way to tell if thats what it is? could it be a lifter? ..cause I got one of those automotive stethascpoes..and went all over the engine with it and I couldnt hear any loud clattering and I felt on the block below the number 1 header tube where he did and I didnt feel anything...what I heard thru those things was what I asume to be the normal sound of an engine turning......I then took them off and tried to listen for it and it wasnt there........now Im stumped....ofcourse if I fire it up tomorrow it will be there...but im hoping it wont be...any kind of oil treatment I can throw in there?..might as well try anything first?

the sound was a mildly to low clattering..not a loud knocka dn it only did it at idle..when gas was givin the sound would go away....

he had told me thats because torque is put on all the parts

 

Drain and check oil. If you see alot of metal then it needs to come apart. It is common for alittle metal to be in there on a new motor tho.

 

Hard to tell over the internet,, I'd take the recommendation of the mechanic that is there. If he thinks it's a rod bearing,,, then it's probably just starting to go bad,, enough clearance on the bearing to knock at startup.

Another "common" knock on roller engines is improper clearance on the cam button,, or not using one and the cam gear moves out enough to hit the timing chain cover. The noise would be coming from the front of the engine,,,, but again,, hard to say not actually hearing it.

However,, if there is a noise going on,,, you sure don't need to keep cranking it. If it is a bearing,,, you're running the risk ever time you crank and run the engine of marring the crank. If there's no button,,, and the timing gear is hitting the cover,,, you're probably putting shavings in the oil,, which would eventually get the bearings.

Anyway,,, I'd pop the valve covers,,, turn the engine over by hand and check the valve lash. Look and make sure none of the rocker arms are hitting the valve covers - there should be a mark on the valve covers by now if they are. If that's all good,, I'd pop the timing chain cover and check the end play on the cam. If that was good,,, I'd drop the oil pan and check the bearings. If you have a hoist,, and depending on the pan and pick up used,,, you might be able to take the distributor out, take the bolts out of the mounts and lift the engine enough to get the pan out without unhooking everything. If you do that,,, put a block of wood under the balancer and use another jack with just enough pressure to hold the wood block in place,,, just as a back up in case the hydraulic jack on the hoist craps out.

 

OK!...I now have full exhaust...I drove it to have mandrel tubes put on at the only mandrel bender I could find here in NC.....I drove it 110 miles eachway...I figured WTF!....and didnt really care about it anymore.

Good news I guess...with the full exhaust I was now able to here where the noise is coming from and the sound and I mean SOUND!...cause its loud...is coming from the TQ converter flywheel area....it sounds like that **** is going to blow up.....sounds like the the inners are coming apart....which is causing massive vibrations while driving....the sound is not so much while driving into the rpm's but when I come to a red light, holy crap!..it sounds like its gonna fly apart...that is also causing my engine to vibrate...unless Im just thinking it is...

I'll get a sound clip tomorrow and post it and let you guys hear it....

 

Sounds like loose converter bolts? I'd check that out before you run it any more.

 

I had a converter that buzzed, then the tranny started to vibrate in 3rd and 4th. I pulled it before it went, but I don't think it had much time left.

 

ok heres the noise video...its alot louder and more clattering when I put it into gear....sound quality sucks with this camcorder...its really loud in person



can anyone tell what it is just from this?

Im going to drive it tomorrow to a trans shop...and that 30miles away..I live out in the sticks

 

I would say its your converter bolts. My brother-in-law had a very similar sound with his 70' Nova. I would quiet down when the motor reved up because the bolts would be forced to one side, but at idle with his cam, it sounded very similar. Of'course, he didn't check the bolts until we pulled the motor and tranny out together, we found out when we went to loosen the bolts. It egged out the TC and flexplate. He drove his car for almost two months before it happened.

 

we tightened the converter bolts down yesterday when I was at the exhaust shop...Someone told me to take the converter bolts off and then fire the car up...and see if the noise was still there...that would pinpoint the noise better.

but would it be ok to take the bolts off and crank the car up? the converter wouldnt spin, right? neither would the trans?

 

it shouldn't, just push the converter farther back in the trans so it doesn't touch the flexplate at all.

 

YEP!!!....flexplate!....all the flex bolts have pulled out of the crank end about a 1/2 inch! and egg shaped all the holes...DAMN DAMN DAMN DAMN!!!!!

this thing is a never ending project..... ...LOL...

Oh well, Im going to drop the trans and then pull the motor out too....Motor is leaking oil every freaking where!!!..PAN and timing cover and I think the back of the intake......my whole underside is coated with oil....and thats one things I hate..is a ****in drippin car........so I guess the car is under the knife again for the next month or so..

ok guys..thanks for the tips....I'll ask more question as I get to em...