So a little history before I get started with my crazy plans..... My camaro is an 84 with TPI. I know that 84's didn't come with TPI. However, when the guy I bought it from first aquired the car it came with a blown motor, that allready had the TPI on it. So he switched that motor out for a motor from an 89 Caprice. It happens to be a 305, which he then put the TPI on that was on the blown motor. The car has the Z28 tuned port badge on the passanger side I guess you could say where the glove box would be...

So now after that speal.... I have a few options

Option 1: Keep the 305, build that. Start out small like headers, then work my way up through a cam and heads.

Option 2: Keep the 305 for a while and buy genaric parts that will fit another motor like headers, or an intake. Then aquire a bigger displacement small block and build that and add the genaric parts that I put on the 305.

Option 3: Keep the 305 bone stock and aquire a 350, or larger small block and build that.

Through all these options I could either keep the TPI or go to something else. I'm not sure what to do about that.

There is also the possiblity that I could find an LT1 or the like. However, I'm 17, so there in lies the problem. I would like to build either motor, but I have to plan it out. Since I may want to put nitrous on it later, I want a cam that will make good power with or without nitrous. Stuff like that is what is hard. So, what are your guys opinons on my options, or any other options that you guys have. I need advice on different displacements, cams, and all that good stuff......

Another thing, I was planning on converting the motor to Edelbrock E-Tec 170 vortecs, so I would need the vortec manifold and such. Is that a good idea?

I know its a lot of reading but thanks for going through my novel. I appreciate it. This board gives me a ton of much needed info that would be hard to get otherwise....

John

 

Wow, very well thought out and planned - for a 17 yr old Your thread sounds strikingly similar to my very first thread on TGO, asking almost the same thing. It's nice to see the young guys writing coherent posts with no slang, very professional. I'm sure you're going to get loads of good advice here.

A few things - you have an '89 caprice 305, some F-body TPI induction, and everything else in the car is stock?

I'd say #2. Use generic bolt ons, and car upgrades. Don't do anything that's "specific" to your 305 (pistons, etc).

SFC's, gears, torque converter, cam (roller!), etc would be good starts. Pick a cam that'd work in a 350, so go a bit bigger. Gears and converter before if you can. Car upgrades in other words, rather than just motor upgrades.
Save your nickels and dimes, and sooner or later you'll be ready to pick up a 350 (roller) shortblock.

Oh yea, exhaust is also a good addition. I'd leave the TPI at the roadside as soon as you can, and go carbed. It's much more $ to keep TPI on a 350.
I'd save the E-tec heads and matching intake until after you have the 350. On the 305 it'd drop the CR too much for now.

 

The only thing on the car that I know of that is not stock is the muffler. I'm not sure the brand name of it but it's a "performance" muffler. As performance as it could be for the way it looks. Everything else besides the badges are stock as far as I know. I'm not sure about the transmission being original, or the rear end. I don't even know what the gearing in the rear is. It'd probably be a good thing to find out .......sometime in the near future. Anyway, the car still has the cat on it, I'm not sure if it's working right or not. Sometimes the car will be a little troublesome to start. But for the last few times it's been starting right up. Probably because the fuel injector cleaner that I put in it is finally taking hold. Or because i've been starting it more frequantly.

The only other things that are going on is that it seems to be running rich
when I start it, and there is a strange clicking that is comming from the engine. My girlfriends dad said that it was the lifters going bad. But I had another guy say that its bad when the engine stops clicking. It's not to prominent and probably very hard to diagnose with my brief description. It could also be the a/c belt, because it seems to be very loose. When I ditch the a/c I'll see if it still clicks.

Would the roller cam still be good for the possibility for adding nitrous?

What are SFC's?

Would the vortec heads, intake, runners ect...be a good idea? What makes vortec stuff different?

I plan on keeping the TPI just because of the mileage.

Thanks

John

 

SFC = SubFrame Connectors.
They will stiffen your cars frame up so it will handle more power.

 

Yeah, I was definetly planning on getting some Subframe connectors.

Any more answers to any of the questions or advice?

Thanks

John

 

well i built a 305.. it was fun as hell but still diddn`t have the power i wanted so i`d stay away from building a 305.....

ok you want a 350 find one in a junk yard, 2 or 4 bolt main, it doesn`t really matter, 4 bolts are alittle better of a block BUT are ALOT harder to find (around here anyway)

if the cylinders are in good shape you`ll only have to hone them with a honing tool, but if there not in good condion you may need to bore your block. best thing to do here is send the block to a shop and have them prep your block... of if you don`t know how to build an engine and are affraid to learn on your own, get the shop to put the bottem end togher... although doing it yourself is REALLY fun, but takes along time. oh ya make sure you get a roller block if you want a roller cam. 87 and up blocks are roller.

now you need heads cam and an intake..... i`d go with a .510 lift cam or smaller. Bowtie heads and a victor jr bowtie intake with a 650 dubble pumper dual feed holley carb.

i`ve also heard good things about the Dart Iron eagle heads. or you could get a pair of the 327 461 cammel backs and try your hand at porting them. but since i`m guessing you don`t know how to port heads try the Vortec Chevy truck heads 96-98 LIGHT duty the heavy duty truck heads don`t flow as good and i`ve heard there good UP TO 400 hp out of the box BUT if you go with the vortecs your cam will have to be smaller then a .460-.470 lift unless you mod the heads for higher lift cams.

so a good streetable engine would be the 87 and up 350 with the vortec heads with a vortec performer RPM intake and a .460 lift cam and a 600 vacuum secondary holley... that should get you a solid 300 hp..... and if you want N.O.S make sure you build the engine with forged pistons.

good luck and remember what ever engine you build your car will be ALOT faster so don`t go killing yourself.

 

the clicking can be injectors, or mechanical lifters

what was the original engine in the car

what is the 8th digit of the vin code

im just curious

personally if it were my car i would do what would be most cost effective and easier at this current point in time so that you could have the car to drive and then later on you can get the engine you really want in it ready to go while you are driving it


but thats just me and i have had too many projects that i wish i had gone this route with and never got to finish and/or drive and instead lost after spending way too much $ and time on


dont make a mistake like i and many others do and have about 200 times now
lol



good luck

 

Check this thread out a bit too if you are planning on going with the 305 at first.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tpi/...89-350tpi.html


Some good info for later - it actually seems like a fairly easy conversion (all things considered, in any event anyway).

I'd think option 2 is certainly your best choice, unless you have a 2nd car and aren't effected by your third gen being out of commission a while.

I'd love to build a 350 up in my basment and then swap out the engines, the problem I have is no garage - and if I do it in the basement, I need to figure out how the heck I can move an engine across about 75 foot of grass to get it to the driveway for the swap out... So far, I'm thinking maybe of just building a cart out of some 2x6's and getting some nice sturdy wheels for it - then using a winch or something to pull it up the hill, lol.

I could do so much of a better job if I had an engine stand - and moving's just not an option really.

 

The eight digit is a 6.

I have about another year on the lease on my Dakota, but I would like to get the car on the road soon.

Would it be a good idea to bore or stroke the 350? I'm just trying to get all of the facts straight before I start seriously planning this out.

Pretty much what I want in this car is to be the fastest car in the Highschool parking lot, which shouldn't be too hard, and to be able to waste the rice rockets that think they're fast.

John

 

It doesnt take much to get a really quick car but someone is always gonna be faster. Stock corvettes are doing like 11s and 12s these days I think... It doesnt take a LOT of money to get our cars going that fast compared to the cost of a vette, but you'd easily spend at least what the car is worth to do it...

Stroking it is great if you have the money. I'm in a position now where I'm about to buy a rotating assembly for my 350 and vortec heads, but I'm not even gonna bother stroking it because that's just a lot more money tied up in machine work to clearance the block for the stroker crank, money that I can put towards a locking rear diff, SFC's, road race shocks and struts, whatever.


I've got a 350 with 906 casting Vortec heads (The 96-98 variety), planning to get a comp xe268 cam, and a holley 650DP... I'm aiming for 300 rwhp, should at least be in that ball park, but it's gonna be a torque monster. I cant wait. Just try to keep it simple. If you do upgrades on your current motor, I would stop short of changing heads, because then you get into compromising compression ratios, now or later, to use the same heads, and you dont want to buy heads that fit your 305 better than an eventual 350. But if you dont ever plan on getting a 350, you can make a lot happen with a 305, it's just gonna take a little more money to do it on a 305 than a 350. But you're not paying for a 350 block either... where does the law of diminishing returns kick in? That's for you to decide, it's your money, how much is it worth to ya?

Anyway, you seem like you're going about htis the right way so no matter what you do I'm sure you'll be at least content with it.

 

Well, I'm thinking about doing mostly free mods to my motor as of now. My dad can port and polish the heads, i'll make a cold air intake, I'll have him port the plenium and any other free mods that I can think of. That and some headers, and tune up the ignition system and see where I am from there.

I'm also thinking about somehow aquiring a wrecked fourth gen camaro, bird, or transam and getting the newer 350's out of them. I forget what they are LS1 or LT1. Along with the computer. I'm not sure my route yet.

Keep the advice comming though, it's much appreciated.

John

 

Is your TPI system MAF or MAP? If it's map you're definitely going to have to do some PROM tuning, If it's maf-based, you might be able to get away with leaving it alone, but it may not run nearly as good as it might be able to. You can do all you want to help the engine flow air better, but the computer wont necessarily know how that, and the computer is still in charge of fuel distribution and timing advance. Work with it, not against it.

Just something you might want to keep in mind. Of course getting a carb would make that pointless...

 

How do I know if my TPI would be MAF, or MAP. It has a mass air flow sensor so I'm guessing it's MAF.

How would I go about redoing the PROM? What does PROM even stand for?

Thanks for the help.

John

 

Programmable read only memory. The "chip" basically.

FI is hard to tinker with, as you're about to learn. It hits a wall very quickly, and it's very expensive to get past that wall, much cheaper with a carb.

Vortec essentially means the ports were raised ~1/4". This makes the air and fuel take a smoother path downwards, compared to the typical SBC. Also the combustion chamber is more efficient, so you can use less timing, and have a slightly higher compression ratio. They also have excellent swirl, giving them very good low lift flow numbers. They are the cake and eating it too.

You bore an engine so you can get the pistons to fit nice and tight. If the bores are ovalized, it needs to be "bored out", so that you can use bigger pistons and have a nice fit. It's only bored .030" or so, i'm talking the thickness of a few sheets of paper. You'll gain all of 5 cubes, on a 350 cube engine - IT IS NOT A MODIFICATION TO MAKE YOUR ENGINE BIGGER. That's a side effect, and a tiny one at that. Now stroking, that's a different story. Yes, you can do that, a 3.75" stroke is very common, and when combined with yer typical .030" bore you get a 383 cube motor. Good setup there. If your junkyard 350 needs machining done to the crank, just get a new one - with the 3.75" stroke. If the original crank is ok, might as well reuse it.