I installed World Products 305 S/R Torquers less than 2000 miles ago, and decided to take a look under the valve covers today. Not pretty... Some of the Umbrella Seals have broken apart and the pieces are strewn across the top of the head. Probably some pieces are down in the oil pan by now, sucked up against the oil pump pickup screen....

I haven't started the process of removing the valve springs to inspect more closely yet, but it's obvious that's on the agenda now.

Before I bought the heads, I had read a post from only one other person who had the same problem, so I was aware that it had happened before, but not overly concerned. Now it seems to me that this is not uncommon for these heads. Probably most people just don't ever pull the valve covers to inspect the seals.

I believe that the type of valve spring that came on the heads may be the root cause of the problem. They are a dual spring, by that I mean a standard looking spring with a flat wound spring inside it. There is little to no clearance between the flat wound spring and the edge of the Umbrella Seal. I suspect that the seals were chewed up by the inner springs...

This really sucks! Not only do I have to replace the valve seals, I have to remove the oil pan in order to inspect the pickup screen, which I think requires unbolting the motor mounts and jacking up the engine.... Many hours of work to fix a problem that should have never happened in the first place.

I'm not sure just what to do about replacing the bad valve seals... Should I get different type (single coil) valve springs with more clearance inside, and use Umbrella Seals again?

 

Have you talked to World yet?

(You might want to move all of the vehicle details out of your profile and into your sig, and just use your sig once per thread.)

 

It's Sunday and I've just discovered this issue. No I haven't talked with World about it yet.

(I moved the details to my sig.)

 

World may take care of at least part of it on warranty.

Thanks. A lot easier to read now.

 

If the heads just have umbrella seals on them, get rid of them, and use positive seals instead. Those things aren't very effective.

Sounds like you have typical small-diameter (1.25") single springs with dampers (that's what the flat-wound thing is).An EXTREMELY common cause of strange things happening with small springs, is when the pockets are cut for larger ones, but small ones are installed. When put together like that, the springs dance all around in the pocket, and can rub on the seal or the guide or whatever. The cure is either to get the right size springs for the pockets, or to use locators of this general sort (they come in various combinations of sizes to fit different pocket sizes, guide sizes, etc.).

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...TFS%2D31400433
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...CA%2D4771%2D16

 

This is exactly the case. The spring pockets are cut for a larger diameter spring and shimmed with flat copper washers to (I suspect) set the spring tension to the proper setting.

I had wondered about the springs being able to "dance" around when I installed them, but since they came from World like that, I assumed that they would be fine.

I called World customer service this morning and spoke to some guy named Steve. He sounded like he has no clue as to what this issue is all about. He's supposed to call me back after speaking with his co-workers.

 

Welcome to hot-rodding!!!

You can fill in the blanks with just about any mfr and employee, and really just about any issue; and the story won't change much.

I've seen ALOT of head mfrs, even some machine shops that should KNOW BETTER, set heads up like that. Pretty dumb and lazy IMO.

Anyway, there's the cure. Measure all your parts (springs, pockets, guides), and track down the required "adapters", if you want to keep the springs. I doubt you'll get just a whole lot of satisfaction out of phone support, although you might maybe be able to get them to supply the parts.

My first suggestion would be to get the right springs to fit tight to the pocket, along with the retainers that they'll need. Next would be to use the kind of locators that fit reasonably tight to the pocket, and have an inner diameter locator for the outer dia of the springs. Just make sure that the inner dia of the locator is sufficiently smaller than the damper, that it can't fall out and get wedged between the guide and the locator. If you can find a locator that fits tight to the guide and locates the spring by its inner dia, that would be OK too; but there's less variety of that style available so your odds aren't as good.

 

I didn't get assembled heads. I got bare heads and a "completer" kit from the vendor with "LT1" springs. Never had any problems with them.

 

just realize that spring seat locator will reduce the installed height of the spring. usually .060" recheck your springs for coil bind clearance.

 

That's a good point.

I may end up installing larger diameter springs to fit the pockets... (as Sofa recommended)

I know that when I bought the heads, World had two different part numbers (seems like -01 & -02) for a choice of different spring rates. Seems to me that I had wanted the -02, but that they were no longer available. I'd bet that the -02 was assembled with a spring which was a larger diameter, and properly fit the spring pocket.

Ok, the spec sheet for these heads shows two chioces of springs. A 1.250" Single Spring @ 100 lbs. Closed / 120 lbs. Open, or a 1.440" Double Spring @ 120 lbs. Closed / ? Open.

It looks to me like the spring pockets on the head are milled out to 1.51" dia. so I'm not sure if either spring that they offer actually fit the heads properly...

Sofa, what do you think about that?

My Crane Cam lists a spring requirement of 107 lbs. Closed / 276 lbs. Open. I suspect that either of the spring rates that World offers would be fine with my Cam.