I recently found out that every single one of my spring dampers on my passenger head were broken. I went back to the machine shop that put together the heads, and they didn't have a good answer. The only thing I didn't do was assemble my heads, I should've taken the time to learn.
My question is do I have to take my heads off and bring them to a machine shop where someone knows what they're doing to fix this problem.
When I brought the heads to the machine shop only two of 16 dampers were broken, they replaced the springs, and didn't do a good job at all. The idiots also didn't push the intake seals on all the way on, on the passenger head.
I have sportsman II heads, and my cam has a .500/.510 lift. The guy also never said I can't run self aligning rockers with guide plates, and they knew what rockers I was running. I guess I should've known that.
Any help would be much appreciated. I'm surprised I didn't have a catastrophic failure.
Also the OD on the springs they used is 1.260, that could be part of the problem right there. Here's the specs on the heads I have.


http://www.worldcastings.com/catalog/19.pdf

 

I have the 012250-2, I believe. They are probably 4 years old, i'd guess, I got them with my first third gen.

 

This crap gets my blood pressure up .
The -2 heads are supposed to have the 1.437" springs right?
The machine shop probably put on the cheapest springs they could find.
People that sell inexpensive heads will put the cheapest springs on them that they can find.
We need the specs on your cam and the max RPM that the engine sees.
Yes, you are lucky you didn't drop a valve. The valve spring is the only thing holding the keepers on the valve stem. Break a spring and you can lose the piston, rod, crank, cam, head and even the block.
If the heads are still on the engine, you don't need to pull them off to put new springs on.
I don't go "cheap" on valve springs. They take a pounding and CANNOT BREAK! Guess what kind of springs are doing THIS in my engine?
Pretend you're putting in the cam that's in your engine now.
Call the cam maker, tell them what heads you have and ask them what springs to buy. Buy those springs and install them yourself. It's not hard or expensive. A lot easier than pulling heads and putting them back on.
...And throw away every spring that you pull off.

 

I can't believe I handled it as calmly as I did when I went there.
I know I don't need to pull the head off to change springs, I brought an old spring in to them. I told him i'd buy expensive springs that wasn't a problem. He just gave me another set of the same ones, and told me to try them. That should've been a dead give away as to the quality, amongst other things. I think he's not getting his spring compressor back.
I'm not worried about the installation, i'm worried about shimming the springs, but I can learn. The cam specs are .502/ .510, 276/282. thank you
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I'm just wondering about all those little peices of metal in my oil pan right now, that isn't too good.
I would be furious if I had a ton of money into the motor, but I really didn't put that much into it, it's the time and the fact that bothers me more then the money.

 

I just read some, it seems easier than I thought. I will buy a valve spring micrometer, shims, and new springs. Hopefully it works out.

 

This might be a stupid question, but could I switch to 10 degree retainers. I currently think I have 7 degree retainers.

 

You may have to get new retainers to match the new (good) springs.
As far as any metal that the dampers may have shed, I would just stick a 1/4" flat magnet to the bottom of the pan (outside) and leave it. The dampers probably didn't shed that much.
So, what springs are you looking at and what RPM does the engine see?

 

I was looking online and it looks like i'll have to buy the world springs. They are the ones for the head, and it will be .ike 350 for springs retainers, and locks. I have to go, later.

 

Ok, now I have more time. I'd like to go with another company rather than world, but I might have no other choice, because of my limited knowledge. It seems that they are an oddball spring, they have a 1.825 installed height. Maybe that's why the guy at the machine shop had trouble, but he doesn't know crap.
I do have the heads with the 7 degree retainers, and surprisingly I found all the parts I need on summit. The part numbers I found through this link: I have -2 heads.

http://static.summitracing.com/globa...inderheads.pdf

I'm probably only going to spin the engine to 6k, even though it feels like it still has more. I spun it to 6k a bunch of times with those crappy springs, i'm lucky. Thank you for your time.

 

You do not have to put 7° retainers on there just because that is what was there. All you have to do to change it, is to get the right keepers. Not that there's any particular reason you should; but if you want to, there's nothing keeping you from doing so.

You do not have to put springs with an installed height of 1.825" on them, just because that is what was there. You buy the springs you need, and you set them up at the installed height they require, whatever that might be, by shimming.

All you need to know, is the OD of the spring pockets on the heads. Find that out (by measuring, I'd recommend). Buy springs of that diameter from whomever, the retainers that go with those springs from the same mfr, and the keepers that go with those retainers. Then set them up at the height they require.

No need to worry about what World put on there.

 

Thank you, i'd rather not buy from world.
I though I could just use other keepers if I got the matching retainers. Is it true that 10 degree retainers are better? I was worried about setting them up myself, but now I have all the confidence I need.
Supposably with the comp rockers I have the max diameter spring I can run is 1.5. There are two spring pockets in my heads 1.250, and 1.550.
I'm also going to buy a Filter Mag brand magnet to attach to the pan. It's strong as hell, it's meant to be put in rear end housings. I will pull the pan this winter to get the metal out.

 

On paper, yes.

In the real world, maybe not.

When you look at a retainer, the hole in the center is tapered. That number of degrees is the "steepness" of the taper. So it seems obviuos enough that the steeper it is, the less likely it is that the retainer will pull off over the keeper, right?

But what if that's not how the system actually fails? What if, when a retainer comes off, you take it off and discover that the little bead on the inside of the keeper, where it engages the valve, is what failed? Or, what if what really happened was, the retainer cracked radially, and expanded? Did the extra 3° REALLY make any difference?

Turns out, in the RW, those are the 2 most frequently observed failure modes. Neither of which is addressed by the 3°. About all that it does, is to help "clamp" the keepers tighter onto the valve stem, which marginally improves failure mode #1. "Marginally" being the operative concept. But that's what's widely avaiable, so there's no reason to go with it or avoid it; just, make sure all your parts match, and it'll be fine. I doubt you're pushing these things to the very edge of their ulitmate endurance, fortunately.

7° are just fine, when the rest of the system is chosen and installed correctly. So are 10°.

If your spring pockets are 1.55", then that's pretty much the max size. That's the stock big block size. Very very common and ordinary for aftermarket heads.

Using Comp #s because they're VERY EASY to look up the specs for, I'd suggest 930 springs, set up at 1.900", with 741 retainers. That's a double spring, plus a damper. Those retainers are 10°, and will use either 613 keepers (locks), or 614 which add .050" installed height, as required. Plus shims of course. Those springs will give about 135-140 on the seat at that installed height, and about 320 over the nose at .550" lift. Should be fine for a streetish or light racing application. If you plan to do it yourself, get a valve spring mic, something like this one.

Another mfr to look at would be Manley. They'll probably cost a bit more, but are a somewhat better part sometimes.

 

I would like to add that you need to measure the valve guide boss to make sure the ID of the spring will fit. (not usually a problem unless you're a dinosaur like me that uses double springs)
I would NOT put the same springs on there and expect a different result.
You may not be "lucky" again.
As Sofa says, get valve springs and retainers that match each other and if the OD of the spring fits the pocket, install them at a correct height and button it up.
Sofa: Throw out your choice of springs w/retainers if those were your heads.
If they were mine and the bosses were .725" or less I'd drop 1.250 shims in the inner pocket to make it level and put Isky 6105 springs ($144) on it with 507-STA retainers ($72) and stock 7° locks. It would be good past 6500 without too much lobe pressure (125-130 seat pressure). They are 1.430" OD .730" ID.
But I'm biased. And yes those are the ones singing in my video...

 

I'm definitely going to do it myself. I just spend a couple hours reading, and deciding. Is it true that if I put a bigger spring than 1.50 on I will have problems because of my rockers? I'm getting these rockers, and they have a max spring diameter of 1.50.
http://store.summitracing.com/partde...6&autoview=sku

I was going to buy the Comp 987s, with the 740 retainers, and the 613 locks, but you guys know better than me.
Thank you for your suggestions, and time. I was starting to go a little crazy, I need to go to sleep.
Hopefully what I chose will be good, if not let me know, please.
I would also have no problem going with manley, I have manley valves, but I am biased toward Comp, I don't know why.

 

The next set of valve springs I get are going to be beehives, I'm quite sure. Solve all sorts of problems.