Theking

iTrader: (1)

Tonight I went to the garage to check out the injectors.
The values on the injectors where fine tonight : http://www.alandsbrodata.ymex.net/z28/accelohm.htm

Started the car up. Let it run for a while, runned pretty good, little shaky sometimes, almost like
missfire... some "bumps" in the sparks.. Runned the car and it went in to closed loop and gave
it a little throttle.. some knock retard... after 8 minutes of logging , it went out of closed loop
I really dont know why (bought a new o2 sensor last summer) Cars runs a little worse..
little shaky, some extra "puffs" from the exhuast..fuelpressure stays at 34~36PSI on idle.
and vacuum holding around 20 stady (so it seems fine ?!) The logg from TTS Datamaster you will
find here (engine got to running temp) : http://www.alandsbrodata.ymex.net/z2...b08-ANYH_8.rar

Ive set a password to it : irocztts (just to keep it alittle safe)

Closing down the car and it losing / dropping fuelpressure at once (maybe 30 secs) its down
do 0... not good... I turn the key and the fuelpump builds up pressure to ~32PSI and then drops it
down to about 10 PSI... (is there a leaky injectors involved?!) Thougt of trying to start
it to see if its flooded but whem I turn the ignition key the starter only clicks (like metall to metall)
The sound is coming from the starter and it pretty loud (I bought a new starter, powerstarter last summer,
I installed it correctly with advice from the company that sold it)
When Im trying to start it and the starter just clicks, the BRAKE light is coming on..
Turning of the ignition and the fuelpressure is dropping to ~2PSI trying to start again
the pressure goes up to ~20PSI and then tries to turn the key, only the metall click from
the starter... and when I turn off the ignition the pressure drops to ~1PSI....

Under the logfile time ~15min (i think it was) it holding nice stable fuelpressure 34/36 PSI at idle
When im giving throttle the pressure get higher (as it should when the vacuum changing) and
when I let go of the thottle the pressure goes back to ~34PSI... (cannot be the fuelpump then if the pressure
is fine when the engine is running?!)

If the injectors is leaking.. could they make the starter not to turn around ?! dont think so or ?

Starter is new, correctly installed (not heat related problem, because the exhaust didnt get so hot tonight)
all the cables are fine, no corrosion or so...

Any ideés of what the problem can be ?!

Had the same problem for 1˝ year ago, Ive changed this stuff since that:

ECM
injectors (accel 23lbs)
Sparkplugs, sparkplugs wires.
Rotor / distributorcap
Fuelfilter
Air filter
New PROM (for the larger injectors)
Checked VATS
Charged the battery (exide maxxima new)
New oilpressure unit (the one that can controll fuelpump)
PCV Valce
New TPS
New o2 sensor
MSD blaster coil
New starter (hitatchi powerstarter)
New IAC..

please help me out here...

bonesbrakr

iTrader: (3)

Pull the vacuum hose off the fuel regulator and turn on the key. If gas shoots out the regulator you need to replace it or at least the diaphragm.....

Theking

iTrader: (1)

I did that last summer when I changed the injectors... back then it was OK havent tried it since that... could it be that ?...

the problem with the starter then ? what can cause that ?

Supervisor42

If a ruptured diaphram pours enough fuel into the intake it can fill a cylinder, hydro-locking the engine.
Take the sparkplugs out and get ready for a bath.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

The problem is that I cant remove the sparkplugs from above.. I need to drive the car up on a carramp, becuase its impossible to remove all the sparkplugs from above on a stock enginge without headers... the only one I can reach is cylinder 1 sparkplug... You think the chambers are flooded then ? that cannot be good for the pistons....

could there be any other problem ?

Theking

iTrader: (1)

The fuelpressure with the vaccuum off is like ~43/44PSI..

The strange thing is, I went to the garage today and checked if the FPR was leaking fuel out of the vacuum line. NO it didnt.... maybe I need to change it anyway... becuase the fuelpressure does not hold when the engine is off...
when engine is idling its on ~35PSI and when giving throttle it goes up to about ~43PSI maybe...

I tried to start it, just that click from the starter comes and BRAKE light goes on... I thought maybe I´ll try to push the brake and start it. just because the BRAKE light is on... I push the brake pedal and turn the key, the car starts right up... strange..

why did I have to push the brake pedal .. logged for a while and turned off the car, changed prom and tried to start it WITHOUT holding brake, and it starts now without brake pedal down...

Why any ideas of why I had to push the brakepedal to make it start ?!

Supervisor42

Was this car converted from a stick shift to an auto? There could be a weak connection where the clutch switch works the solenoid circuit or something similar that moved when you pressed the brake. ie: bad connection under the dash.
If your ohm meter is good, and you have an injector that actually reads 85 ohms or 900 ohms when hot, that injector is bad electrically. I know, they're new. You may have a bad "batch" of injectors if this problem goes back to when they were installed.
Also please add the year of the camaro in your "info" section that is to the left of the posts.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

No the car has not been converted. its an Auto from factory..
I dont need to push the pedal in normally, this is the first time I done this..

its an 1989 Camaro

Yeah the ohmmeter is good, used 3 different ones. and the ohm was over 900 on 1 injector... its strange, today they where on ~16 each and yesterday they where on ~15.4... strange that they change...
----------
if my FPR is bad, could I buy this one ? : http://store.summitracing.com/partde...rt=HLY-512-501

Is everything included in that one, new everything ?

Supervisor42

See above ^^^^.
The ohm reading will increase "some" when they warm up. But not above 20 ohms...
I don't think the FPR is bad. The pressure may be leaking off because an injector is not closing completely or back thru a worn pump in the tank.

Supervisor42

Let me put it another way:
If an injector reads above 30 ohms, it IS bad and must be replaced.
If more than 1 read high, I would replace them all.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

but the injectors has had good values since 23 january so thats strange that they have good values again now..

if the FPR is bad, couldnt it leak back inte the return and back inteo the tank ?
or is that impossible ? could the pump be goood and only the FPR bad?!

How can I check that out ?

Supervisor42

Check them when they are hot. Electrical problems with injectors are usually temperature sensitive.
The FPR can leak back thru the return line to the tank. If you read 35+ psi under WOT then the leakage will only affect the engine restarting after the pressure bleeds off. Like: "engine has to crank several seconds before it starts after being shut off"

Theking

iTrader: (1)

when i give throttle it rises to ~42 psi(depending on how much throttle)
WOT is maybe ~45PSI..

Theking

iTrader: (1)

The starter is fine, Ive checked it by connecting it directly to power source. turns over directly. so the starter seems to be fine.

starting to think of the ignition switch my friend had to change it because it was bad.. maybe its that , this one : http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

maybe its that one thats making all my problem ? could it be bad connection in that one ?

FPR i will check if its broken.. I hope its that one, because its easy to change.. will try to squese the return line when the fuelpump is buliding pressure, if it gets higher when im stopping the flow in the return line its prolly the FPR ...

because the fuelpump also gives good pressure when engine is on, so it wouldnt be the fuelpump then, wouldnt it jump around the pressure if the pump is bad ?

right now all my hope goes out to the FPR .... Will be back with info from the test..

Theking

iTrader: (1)

Tried to check the FPR today.

turned on the key and pressure build up, closed the ignition at 44PSI (max pressure) and squeezed the INLET line, nothing really happened, the pressure dropped alittle bit slower but not much..

Turned the key again and pressure builds up to 44PSI and closed, tried to squeeze the RETURN line and I squeezed with all my power and the pressure dropping stopped, let go of the squeeze and pressure drops, squeezed again and pressure dropp stopped..

Tried to squeeze a little little bit and turned the key while holding little squeeze on the return line pressure jumped up to ~65PSI and I turned off the ignition and let go of the return line. pressure dropped to ~44PSI and stopped there without im squeezing.. strange that now its holding much better pressure still dropping and when I squeeze the RETURN line its stop dropping,
Then its the FPR right ? it couldnt be the fuelpump then...

I tried to turn the key alot of times, and the pressure builds up everytime, and now its holding much better since the peak at 65PSI... but still the FPR would be bad... right, beacuse its stop dropping when I squeeze the RETURN line..

and I tried to start the car, and the starter just clicked seems like it dosent get any power, the voltage only drops from 12.34V to 11.84V so maybe its this ignition switch thats broken : http://store.summitracing.com/partde...930+4294840138

Theking

iTrader: (1)

yesterday I went to the store that sold the exide maxxima battery, left it there and they will check the health of it. If it comes back good,

Would it be the starter thats broken then ? even if its new and worked well for a while ?..

Got the ignition switch yesterday to, will try to change it and see how it works out..

this is the sound when im turning the key : http://theking.joakimweb.se/z28/rep/sound/starter1.wav

Supervisor42

When the battery comes back, you could make up a short wire with a ring terminal on one end, a male slide terminal on the other end, put it on the original starter and swap it back in to find out...
EDIT: if swedish is your native language, this must be a big struggle for you.
Very nice webpage.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

You mean that I shall try the stock starter (that I changed out?) if thats what you mean its not possilbe, becuase the old one is totally busted.. thats why I changed starter.

If I take one cable from + side of the battery and put on the starter solenoid + then it has to turn if its working right ? but if it turn wouldnt the car start because when you do like this the key aint turning and giving power ? could anything go bad from trying this or ? just to make sure if the starter is fine ?

Will call them today and see if they found anything on the battery..
some peoples say thats the battery causing the click becuase low voltage..
this is a picture when i measured the voltage (battery had been charged for about ~3 days with CTEK charger and its a gel battery)

Wouldnt the voltage be higher when its fully charged ? I measured 45 seconds after I turned the charger off. and you see its going down all the time..
and directly after the charge it was on 12.72V and 30 later ike 12.6V..

any other ideas of what can be wrong ?


yeah, Swedish is my native language is this the page you looked at ? : http://irocz.info.se/ if so thanks for the comment, I got alot of new stuff (thats only in swedish right now, but I will translate and update the enlgish part soon) Its take alot of time to update all the pages in swedish and english If you have the way thru my page, please leave a mark in the guestbook..

mxcrazed

It is possible that your starter solenoid is sticking a little bit or that you have a bad wire or ground connection near the starter. there is also a switch connected to your shifter that will break the circuit to the starter it should have one yellow and one purple wire in the harness for this purpose. I think that it is more likely the wire, ground or solenoid though, are you sure that your ignition system is in order (for spark) check your connections to your coil distributer and at each plug that could cause some misfires. I wouldn't think you would be having a problem with your battery leave it disconnected over night and see if you loose more than a couple tenths of a volt then leave it connected and compare. Good Luck!

Theking

iTrader: (1)

what do you mean with. ignition system for spark ?
The engine dosent even turn so there will be no spark to sparkplugs if it dosnt turn.. there is a new MSD Distributor on the way home, but i dont think thats the problem for the starter not to turn over..
Will also change to MSD ignition wires, and new Ac delco plugs (again, changed last year, but I want us made ones its a new MSD blaster coil installed to. when its running it runs VERY good..the thing is to make it start, you heard the sound yourself it just clicks one time. nothing more, dosent lose ant Volts when im turning the key, volt is 11.97V when ignition is on and the starter clicks...

I dont think its the tranny switch either becuase it wouldnt do anything if its that switch right ? and I would problably start when I have it in N then ? ..

Have tried to shift and start , and the same thing, just on (1) click from the starter nothing more.. The battery looks good because all test comeout VERY GOOD.. so its holding power good..

Will change the ignition switch and I will also check the ground to the starter end the + to starter again..

Supervisor42

I believe the battery is good if the voltage does not drop below 11 volts when it clicks.
You can test the motor on the starter by applying voltage on the big terminal shown below. (USE CAUTION) Sparks will fly! If the starter motor spins, then the solenoid on the starter is bad.
EDIT: 2 different starters besides original...

ploegi

The solenoid requires a minimum of 9 volts to properly operate. Grab a friend, disconnect the wire from the ignition switch at the starter, have a friend turn the key, and see what the voltage looks like. If you are getting better than 9 volts, replace the starter. (Yes, it is possible for brand new parts to be bad.)

Your battery is behaving fairly normally. But, I would like to think the shop did a load test on it. Basically, they have a testing tool that places a high load on the battery, and they see how fast the voltage drops, and how low it gets in about 30 seconds. It is possible for your meter to show 12 volts, but, still have the battery fail a load test.

Theking

iTrader: (1)

this is how my starter looks like


nr 3: is the "applying / starting / activating" contact for the solenoid or ?!.. NR3s cable is purple

Wich one shall I apply + from battery to ? Do I have to have the ignition on ?
what happen if the starter starting to turn ? could something go bad ?