The car...

87 Formula

Engine: BluePrint 355ci/ 385HP/ 405TQ - BP3550CT1
- Heads: Vortec 2.02/1.60
- Cam: 224/230 Dur - .480/.486 Lift - 110° LSA
- Carb: Edelbrock Performer 600cfm
- Intake: Edelbrock Performer EPS
- B&M Flexplate

Exhaust: Flowtech Shorties, No cat, Flowmaster 80 series

Transmission: 700R4

Torque Converter: 2600RPM

Wheels: 16x8 Centerline Galaxy

Tires: BF Goodrich G-Force Sport

Original "Performance Suspension" specs but with all new parts and KYB GR-2 struts and KYB Gas-A-Just shocks. I just had new axles put in. Right now the gears are still stock 2.73. I will be changing to something else in a while ($$$) so it will be quicker and get rid of the lugging in overdrive.

So this is a rebuild. And now that I've gotten everything tuned just right here's what I have going on. When I’m in drive, but it’s running in first, whether I’m moving really slow (10 mph) or at a stand still, then punch it, I spin my wheels until after it shifts to second. And even then it spins for a bit. Or if I’m driving say like 20mph, then floor it, the rear of the car gets thrown to the right when it shifts into second and third. Will limited slip keep this from happening? Do I just have too much power for the rear end I have? Will simply going to a different gear and not using a limited slip do anything about that or will that just make it worse?

 

Hmm, surprised nobody chimed in.

Have you done any suspension upgrades? You are making lots of torque and might need subframe connectors, torque arm, LCA and panhard bar to help control rear end. LSD would also help too. I'm assuming you have tires in good shape and they are aligned properly. You might get lucky and find a decent used fourth gen rear end that has LSD and 3.42 gears. 4th gen rears are a little wider than stock but bolt in.

 

If you go to a lower gear (numerically higher) it will make what you have going on worse. Yes, you need a posi for sure.

Dan

 

ok first off, is it stock suspention all the way around?

what you need to do is brake it all down in section on paper, think about the tourq your putting down to the road, when it shifts does the whole car shift over or is it just the body, i strongly recoment and aftermarket panhard bar and lower control arms, the torqe arm actualy can handle allot of power for a stock arm, i would change the bushings out though

wider tires would also help asumimg you dont already have them,

now hellp me out here, im building up a tpi 305, im hoping to pull 400 horses out of her naturaly asperated. do you have to smog your car? what all did you do to your block heads ect. can you give me specs? i know it can be done with a 305 and its not hard to do if you know how, and im perty good at engines, im just wondering what you did to yours , and if you smog it will u pass?

 

RE: Blackdog36

As for suspension, it's all new but with stock specs. The shocks and struts are the only think I didn't go with stock replacements on, I got the KYB GR-2 struts and KYB Gas-A-Just shocks. It's a stiffer ride in the rear, made better cornering that way. And the rear end? I'm going to keep the one I have, I just had new axles put in. It was pricey so I'd hate to take that rear end out.

 

Oh yeah, and I do have good tires, new, hardly any miles on them. BF Goodrich G-Force Sport, 245/50ZR-16.

RE: morrow "now hellp me out here, im building up a tpi 305, im hoping to pull 400 horses out of her naturaly asperated. do you have to smog your car? what all did you do to your block heads ect. can you give me specs? i know it can be done with a 305 and its not hard to do if you know how, and im perty good at engines, im just wondering what you did to yours , and if you smog it will u pass?"

I'm in an area that I don't have to test for emissions. So I am rebuilding the car based on that. It was originally a computer controlled carb engine, a 305. I replaced it with a BluePrint 355, and added the Edelbrock Performer EPS intake, Edelbrock 1406 600cfm carb, flowtech shorty style headers, no cat, flowmaster crossflow, took the smog equipment out of the car and disconnected the computer. I used an MSD Streetfire distributor and got the upgraded HEI module and coil. The engine is dynoed (dynoed? dynod? dynowhatevered) at 386 HP, 405 tq.

At one point I was thinking about rebuilding my 305 to acheive the highest tq and HP without having to change my hood or use NOS. I was going to bore and stroke it, get some world products heads and a crane cam just like the one I have now but with more lift. I think I would have gotten the same results that I have now but it would have cost me a bit more and a lot more work on my end to do it. I am very happy I went with the BP 355. So to answer your question, to get 400hp out of a 305? bore and stroke it as much as possible, without that or nos or a blower or turbo, I just don't think you'll see 400. Please, anyone, correct me if I'm wrong here. Anyway, bore and stroke and get a huge cam and then find heads to match. If you do a full good rebuild like that then there is no reason you can't go with 2.02 heads. If you're thinking of just changing the heads and cam then keep the ports smaller, don't go too big on the cam and you'll get a lot more power, not 400 hp though.

 

i figure if a stock iroc engine is kicking out 230 to 260 horses, stock

ill tear it down, use the stock crank, stock rods, hyperutectic or forged kieth black piston, vortec heads, a lunati voodoo cam , a set of lunati roller rockers, larger fuel injectors, a larger throttle body, polished intake runners and a little bit of custom fuel mapping in the computer when i have the prom reprogramed , and a nice set of doug thorley headers with true dual exaust or the spintech system

at about 9.1 to 10.1 compression ratio, ill be kickin 400 in the ***, or ill be getting real close

 

now, for you....

with the amount of power your throwin down, you definently need to get rid of almost all the stop suspention, but if your not ripping up a canyon , then there are some minor things you need, you already have the shocks, and i would get a larger sway bar front and rear, and a larger panhard bar, edelbroc makes a nice kit you can get with a bitchen torque arm too

 

so is your frame shifting with the axle? or the whole car just brakes loose?

you need posi for shure also but that setup should be perfict, another problem you may have developed is, your shocks,

what you did was stiffin the rear end, which what actualy did was leave you serching for traction, due to the stiff rear your car cant squat down and grip the road, it just spins tires

the setup needed , is one that can go into corners and maintain traction in straits
....

soften the rear shocks up and see what happens,

to hit a corner you need larger anti sway bars
the bigest you can get is from hotchkis

and soften the rear shocks

which will ride better in a strait line and hook up better
and when you hit a canyon the bars will do the work that they were designed to do
not the shocks


my setup in summit lowering coils, which i cut because they left me at stock hight
but they are a bit stiffer then the eibach

i also have hotchkis front and rear swaybars, and a rear hotchkis pan hard bar

up front is the strut tower brace

she holds her own in the curves

im still on stock 15in rims with 225 tires, ive got a set of wheels with 245 45 16 but i need 1 more set of spacers still

the sway bars are not even in yet they are in my garage, im still running stock sway bars
my advice is to get the summit racing springs, they are just as good as anything else out there and soften your shocks, atleast for now

it should work

 

Didn't se it mentioned in a quick browse,

LCA relocation brackets.
Fixes allot of that.

Its almost like GM set them up on purpose to sort of lose traction easier / make customers happier that their stock engine can shred the tires easy.

Where the relocation brackets fix the geometry and get you hooked better.

Next step would be fancy hiem ends adjustable LCAs

Though is reality if your really serious you want a 4 link setup.

God only know why GM didn't use them more on all the performance lines.

They knew it was better then the LCA panhard bar system.

Buick’s even the Lux cars had 4 links stock all the way up to the 80s. All you had to do was toss on adjustable arms for a pro setup many pay a few grand to achieve.

 

I saw the edelbrock kit on summit's site. That definitely looks like the way to go. I'll get something like that then and keep the shocks I have now and see how that changes things. Then if I still need to change the shocks, I will, cheap and easy enough to change those.

 

having stiff suspention isnt bad as long as you have it in the right places,
yea for the money edelbrock makes an awsome kit. i would buy it but im trying to keep it all by one company and all my stuff is hotchkis, soo im stickin with them....

what shocks are in the rear?

 

KYB GR-2 struts and KYB Gas-A-Just shocks

 

i thaught about getting those, but due to my stiff spring rate and i dont wana make it ride like hell im proly just gona try some monro sensatracs first see how they do, my shocks are blown and it doesnt ride bad unless u hit a bump, a good one
i thaught you had fully adjustable shocks and you turned them way up to stiffin the rear

ive never used those shocks befor but i would imagine that they should be so bad, the lca relocation kit, i could work but the fact your at stock hight i dont think you need them

 

A tru trac posi would solve the jerking problem....gear driven posi unit that always sends equal power to both wheels.

 

anyone have a part number or link for the lca relocation brackets?

 

the ls1 4th gen rear got my car to hook.

 

he most likely has a posi on his car, otherwise the car wouldn't kick out when it breaks the tires loose when it shifts.

Car slides towards the right since the weight transfer pushes down on the right rear of the car and when the tires are spinning and the right rear comes back up it has less traction than the left side which causes the car to slide to the right.

With an open rear he would be pointed straight all the time the right rear tire just smoking.

 

lca reloc. brkts are 60 shipped from founders performance on ebay....

 

probably more like 280.... NOWHERE NEAR 400.....!