i'm planning on replacing my intake manifold and i just purchased a set of gaskets from summit . what adhesive do you use to hold the gaskets against the heads . i've been looking up adhesives and the only one that comes up is 3M gasket adhesive and then theres the one that felpro recommends "felpro fel-cobond " wich i cant find on summit. or if theres something else that you use please post .

 

I got some Permatex "1B" "form-agasket sealant" it is fast drying hard setting brown gue. I used it on my intake manifold gasket and it seems to have worked really good.
Got that stuff at auto zone.

 

yeah , i have some of that black permatex stuff , im using that stuff on the center sections of the valley along with rubber pieces provided by summit . how did you hold up your gaskets ? i laso notice that my gaskets have tabs at the bottom do add your choise of adhesive that will hold up the gaskets "thats my guess" .

 

Just remember not to use permatex silicon (black or red rtv) on the gasket. Only use it on the front and back where there is no gasket, unless you got the type with a rubber piece on the front and back as well. Permatex should only be used to make gaskets when one is nonexistent or to seal where that one gasket meets another. Any gasket adhesive should work permatex brands are good and 3M brands are good as well. The thing is that adhesive is really just to hold the gasket in position while you get things put together.

 

I use a few dabs of good old Permatex Gasket Cinch to hold the gaskets in place, and a very small dab of black silicone on each corner where the head, block, and intake all meet to hold the end gaskets in place....

 

so should i just put a little bit of the black permatex @ the tabs on the gaskets ? or should i use the 3M adhesive on the gasket ?

 

Kind of a personal preference type deal, Bird. I use the black Permatex or silicone, but I don't see any reason, if applied correctly, the the 3M adhesive wouldn't do equally well. Like anything, everyone has their own preferred method. I just stick with what has worked well for me in the past......

 

oh. because the the guy who helped me put my lo3 back togethere used black permatex on the gasket and i think it created an uneven surface thus creating a vaccum leak . thats hy i dont want to repeat that over again .

 

I probably misunderstood, I apologize... I just use Permatex Gasket Cinch, a few dabs here and there to hold the gasket in place...then I use the Permatex Black just in the corners where the intake, heads, and block all meet, then just enough to hold the end gaskets in place, and a small dab on top of the end gasket in each corner.... Wish i could draw you a picture on this dang computer, sometimes I can't put the right words down to give the reader the correct picture!!!!

PS--I also only use the correct Fel Pro gasket to match the ports on the heads----I refuse to use the cheapies, they'll give you more grief then they could ever save you money!!!!!!

 

Doesn't Fel-Pro include those little plastic rings that you install in the gasket bolt holes to hold the gasket in place?

 

Yup, they come with most of the performance intake gaskets.... I'm just an old geezer and been using Gasket Cinch for so dang many years it's just a habit.... I fabbed up a neat little pair of hold downs to keep the gaskets in place till the gasket cinch tacks up, too.... Probably not necessary, I just tend to stick with what works best for me.... Heck, I still run carbs instead of EFI!!!!

 

well , this is what i bought thats why i ask . i dont want to repeat this whole problem again http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEL-MS90314-2/

 

Looks like the right stuff to me! Fel Pro makes a good sealing gasket, for sure!

 

i just got back from autozone , i bought some 3M gasket adhesive "since no one in the damn store had ever heard of felpro's fel-cobond" , some crazy glue "broke the heater core cover and the piece that holds the heater core , honestly i thought it was a little door but turns out its not , its just two bolts i didnt see " , a syphon pump "to syphon out the coolant from the intake " and some engine enamel spray " i painted my new intake high gloss black " . i'll get to work on the car tomorrow after work.

 

I like permatex NO.2 (non hardnening) on the head side to hold it in place. If you have permatorque fel-pro gaskets then you should seal up just fine. A little RTV in the corners and a healthy bead across the front and back of the intake will get-er-done.

 

yeah , well we will se tomorrow, will update ASAP.

 

Like so many other things, there are different preferences for doing the same thing, in this case sealing the intake.

Here's my take on it:

In sealing an intake you must seal air, coolant (non LTx engines) and oil. You're also dealing with parts which are exposed to heating and cooling cycles when causes expansion and contraction issues.

Whatever sealant you choose to use has to remain pliable to able to continue to properly function in the environment in which it must live and must also be 02 sensor safe. Choosing the incorrect sealant that gives off fumes harmful to the 02(s) causes 02 failures.

Over many years I finally developed a method that I always use and recommend. In fact, it's even been posted as a STICKY on a couple of Forums. Now, I'm not saying that other methods won't work, it's just that the procedure I came up with works 100% of the time if done properly (what else is new).

As some of you may know, I use to build BB 1/4 mile engines. Many years ago, one of my engines was waved off the starting line because of a rear China Wall oil leak. That was so embarrassing I vowed to find a way to prevent a recurrence. The result is what I've using since and what's posted as a STICKY on LS1LT1.com, etc. It's rather long and detailed but I purposely made it that way so the reader would more fully understand not only HOW to do it but WHY it should be done.

My recommended procedure is a combination of "Old School" and "New School" taking the best from both worlds.

I suggest you log-on to the site and read my detailed procedure (print it if you like) and, if you choose, follow the directions. Insuring no future leaks involves a lot more than just selecting a sealant.

Hope this helps.

Jake

 

interesting thread .still kind of sketchy on the whole dimple thing . it makes sense i just wouldnt want to do it to flush mating surfaces.

 

What's sketchy? None of the other members on the several sites where it's posted and in the PMs I've sent to members asking for it have ever mentioned anything about "sketchy". Let me know and I'll fill you in.

Actually the flush mounting surface is exactly where it's best to do it. Smooth on smooth is the problem; sort of like driving a car on the street with slicks on it as compared to tires with treads.

Remember, any step you skip - for whatever reason - increases the probability of a future leak.

In fact, although I didn't mention this since it's about head gaskets, something very similar is done with BB Chevy head gaskets. The center area of the block is dimpled in the same manner to improve head gasket sealing in the area where there's - what we refer to - a missing head bolt.

Both of those are "Old Racer's" fixes which are passed along from one generation to another to address long known sealing problems. It's not surprising that younger guys haven't learned about it.

Just as a reference point, I'm not the only one who recommends doing the dimple technique. Check Shoebox's site and you'll see a photo of a block dimpled in the same manner. I also have a photo of the dimples if you'd like me to post it here. I dimple all the engines I build the same way.

Jake

 

Here's a shot of my 388 LT1, as I was building it, showing the dimples.



Jake

 

i've been installing intakes using silicone in a way very similar to what Jake explains over on LS1LT1.com since Permatex ultra copper came out.
back when i first started using just silicone, i dimpled because i originally did it to help keep the cork gaskets glued in place.
now on stock or near stock motors i don't worry about dimpling, as long as the surfaces are cleaned properly i feel it isn't really needed. but the surfaces MUST be completely clean.
for a performance build, i still dimple the tops of the china walls and intake where it meets the block.
because i know it works, i've only used Permatex ultra copper except on one motor where i used ford gray silicone.
dimpled or not, the silicone needs to cure, i like 24 hours when ever possible followed by a heat cycle and retorque.
if you do it right, it will never leak from the valleys.


as far as Permatex #1, 2, or 3 goes, i use #3 and i only use it on core plugs, bolts that go into water passages, and shaft seals such as the front main or 1 piece rear main.

 

sketchy as in not too sure about it . it makes sense but since this would be the first " mod" i would be doing to the engine " i have never done any mods other than aftermarket bolt - ons " , i just don't want to mess up anything but if you say its guaranteed to prevent leaks if done right . then yes i would give it a try , besides whats the worst that i could happen ?

 

the worst that could happen?
1, you could swing the hammer too hard, miss and hit the block and break it.
2, you could swing the hammer, miss, and hit your friend thats standing there giving you advice.
3, you could swing the hammer, miss, and hit YOUR thumb
number 3 is the most likely outcome.
but as you really don't need to swing the hammer that hard, it should hurt,... much, LOL

because its your first time, dimple it. it won't take more than a couple of minutes and is good insurance.
watch what your doing, take pictures, use a repair manual, pay attention to detail and you should be OK.

EDIT*
before you pull the distributor out of the motor, pull the distributor cap off.
this is personal preference.
i prefer to put it in time with #1 at TDC compression.
turn the motor over and line up the timing marks on the balancer with the rotor pointing at cylinder #1 on the cap.
or you can turn the motor over and point the rotor at something. it doesn't matter what you point it at, a bolt on the firewall will work.
for either way, make note of where the base of the distributor is at in relation to the rotor.
a mark with some whiteout on the base that lines up with the rotor will work good if you don't wipe the mark off.
either way will work. as long as you don't turn the motor, the distributor should drop back in pretty easily.

 

#! easy to avoid "not THAT stupid..." , #2 cant happen " i work alone on my car . #3 haven't done that in s0o0o0o long . i have taken this thing apart before " i remember " and of course i will set dizzy @ TDC on cylinder one because its a PITA once everything is put together and you're stuck wondering WTF did do ? haha hey , one quick Q , do i also dimple the intake manifold ? and is the black permatex ok ?

 

i've been swinging hammers for years and still find my thumb, or hand every once in a while

if your going to dimple the block, then i would do the intake too.
im guessing our supplier was out of ultra copper, they sent some Permatex black the other day and i used it on a timing cover.
its not the thin glossy black silicone, its pretty thick, it may have just been the light but it looks like it has a touch of gray in it. it sticks to surfaces well and cures nice and firm. it looks like some good stuff.
i plan to try it on my intake when i swap it in the next couple of months.

 

After doing the very first dimple, you'll know how much force it takes to create a dimple. Not all the much, merely a little more than a tap; hammer head held 6"/8" about the dimpling tool.

Keep the tool you're using - I use a nail set - straight up, perpendicular to the surface you're dimpling and 1/8" or so away from any edge. On all the engines I've done I've never chipped a single one probably because I pay attention to what I'm doing.

Last summer, when my son and I were changing the heads, cam, etc. on his 96 LT1 Vette I taught him how to do it, then let him have at it. 100% success.

My photo shows how far away from the edge I keep my dimples. ShoeBox's site has a view also. Don't worry, this isn't rocket science; it's simple and effective.

Yes, I also do the underside areas of the intake, the two areas that correspond to the China Wall locations.

Jake

 

JakeJr, you have time to writea ll this stuff about how you wrote a how-to guide somewhere else, along with other places, and just leave it at that? Is it that hard to provide a link? Even a hint as to which forum has the sticky would suffice.

 

Attention to Detail, my friend. It's right in my first post.

I'm going to let you go back and read it for yourself since you were so curt about it.

An apology's in order too.

Jake