This summer i am planning on pulling the engine out of my 84 and rebuilding it. It is burning oil right now and has some other problems so I've determined that a rebuild is in order. I will be on a budget though so i will not be able to spend a lot of money on it.

The engine is an 305 with 416 heads. I have not pulled the engine yet and i won't be able to until summer but i was just kinda of wondering about some opinions on the setup that i'm planning on doing.

Here's the plan: (assuming its still mostly stock)
I am hoping for about 9.5:1 compression and between 250-300 hp, which i know is pushing it for a 305 lol.
The transmission will be a borg warner T-5 and I believe the rear end has the 3.23 gearing
For the cam i plan on using a comp XE256H which from what i've read is supposed to be a good cam for this engine, and i am probably just going to buy this to save some money

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL12-234-2/

I am also planning on pocket porting the heads (I know a guy that said he will do it for me for free) with the stock 1.84 intake and 1.5 exhaust valves

For exhaust i was hoping i would be able to go with a 2 1/2 - 3" true dual set up w/ cats and probably magnaflow mufflers (not sure if it will work with our cars) and get some headers (not sure what kind yet)

As far as injection goes, it will be carbureted with a non cc quadrajet carb which i already got after the mixture control solenoid on my previous quadrajet broke. This will be mounted on an edelbrock performer intake.

The engine will more than likely be standard bore and will probably be running on 87 - 89 octane.

Opinions and comments are appreciated! (Lets make them productive comments and opinions please! Don't just tell me that i should get a 350 seeing as how i'm on a budget and i already have the 305. I know a 350 would be better but i haven't been able to find a good one so i'll just stick with the 305 lol) Thanks guys!

 

I know you said you don't want to hear it but, keep looking for a good 350, you'll find one eventually. Then you can spend your money rebuilding that instead. I see them on craigslist all day long for 6-700 running carb to pan.

If your absolutely insistant on rebuilding your 305 then just make sure you bag and label every part you pull off. Take pictures on how things looked before you started removing things. Read a book on SBC rebuilding. Have someone who has done this before oversee/help you out. Most importantly don't get discouraged and give up or rush through things, often times this spells disaster.

 

Sorry, my internet screwed up and it ended up posting twice lol

 

Haha thanks for the advice! and i am having a couple of people help me out with it, being my dad and another guy i know, both having rebuilt several engines before. The other guy i know is a huge chevy guy and has rebuilt several sbc's and even has a vette that he races ocassionally.

And as far as labeling everything I'm definetely going to make sure i do that. I learned that lesson after pulling the dash to replace the heater core and do some other stuff. I barely got it all back together lol

But most of the 350's i've seen on craigslist for our area are about 350+ and thats just for the block. though i have seen a couple complete ones for pretty cheap, but there's usually something wrong with those like a cracked head or block or its siezed up or something. But I'm gonna keep looking and see if i can find something before summer, but if not, 305 it is! lol

 

Save the trouble on the true dual exhaust with cats.

The headers and deletion of factory CAT will make the biggest gains in power.
A single 3" exhaust will not limit the power on a 305.

Your biggest potential for making power lies in the cylinder heads. You can get a lot from your stock heads, but "free" will only go so far. You may want to consider further upgrades that could stay within your budget. Chances are the heads will need reconditioning anyway.

Check out these links for info on using LSX valves in your heads.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ml#post4432686

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...tec-heads.html

 

Well as far as exhaust goes, right now it still has the stock manifolds going to a y-pipe which looks close to 3" and then to the cat. from the cat it goes to another pipe which looks close to 3" and then it splits above the rear axle, into 2 pipes which connect to a pipe connecting the two mufflers i have. Here's a diagram of it attached below. I like this setup and may just end up keeping it.

As far as the heads go, the guy that said he would do them for me has done several of his own heads and has lots of experience and knows what he's doing. I was considering rebuilding the heads as well, but i haven't decided yet. But im definetly going to have them cleaned up and possibly upgrade the valves if my budget allows. But i still want it to be a good streetable car and not a complete gas guzzler. I'm kinda looking for more performance than gas mileage but good gas mileage would be nice lol

 

Here is a kit that comp has that i was planning on getting. it has a lot of the parts i need to change out the cam and is pretty cheap for all the stuff that comes with it.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-K12-234-2/

I am also planning on getting a Federal Mogul rebuild kit as well. I haven't decided on getting pistons with it or not though. It's cheaper w/o them but they would up my compression some. I did manage to calculate 9.5 compression with the stock 11cc pistons though so i may just use the stock ones

 

If your rebuilding the engine and you might have to bore out the cyclnders I'm building my 305 at the moment. I also have a brand new summit cam and lifters if your intrested.

 

i'm hoping i can just get them honed and won't have to have them bored any, but if i do then i will just get some pistons with the rebuild kit i will be ordering.

As far as the cam goes I think i'm just gonna get the kit that comp has, that way i get new valve springs and a new timing chain and gears as well as the cam and lifters. Thanks for the offer though!

 

Okay so some good news! After searching craigslist for quite awhile now i have finally found what i think should be a good rebuildable 350!The guy selling it said that it was in a truck he bought and that the previous owner was going to replace the motor because it was making a knocking noise, which i guess eventually stopped. it is pretty much a complete motor and they guy who is selling it says he will give it to me plus all the extra stuff he has for $200. I might be going to go look at it tomorrow and make sure its good, and if it is, I think i'm getting it. The casting number on the block is 10054727 in case anyone wants to know. Would my setup still work for this? Thanks guys!

 

you might be able to get a full magnaflow exhuast cheaper then other pipes and a magnaflow muffler. you can get the full magnaflow exhuast for 320, if you need one a magnaflow cat for 95, and for headers i suggest hooker 2055 hkr i belive there called. they are suppose to be really good and it also suplies a good y-pipe.

 

Good to see you may have found a 350, it would definitely be a better decision in the long run imho.

 

Yeah i'm hoping it'll be worth it. It'll give me more power for sure and they're a little more desired then the 305 anyway. Plus i'll be able to say my camaro has a 350 lol
And I am definitely going with magnaflows, i like them much better than flowmasters or anything else i've looked into so thats probably what i'll get. and get a hi-flow cat as well. I think that may be whats on my camaro right now i've never really checked them out to see. and as far as the setup for the exhaust i'll probably keep it, just replace it with new stuff. and i'll look into those headers for sure. i've seen other people suggest them for other similar builds and stuff so they must be pretty good i'm guessing. Thanks

 

Well i did end up gettin the 350. It ended up bein $100 for a whole engine as well as a radiator and a couple other things. The only problem is that it was sitting for about a month and ended up getting some water in it which caused the pistons and cylinder walls to rust. We tried turning the crank but nothing happened, but we're hoping that it may just be frozen up cause of the rust. It wasn't sitting for a real long time so maybe there's still hope lol. But i figured for 100 bucks its worth a try lol Any suggestions on any ways we may be able to clean it up and get the crank to turn? Thanks guys!

 

well the easiest/most thorough way would be to yank the rods/pistons out the bottom and give it a decent honing.

Doing that would basically be halfway to rebuilding it so you might as well tear it down and re-ring everything and basically have a new motor for maybe another 150.00. i mean hey it's out of the car, why not?

 

Ouch. Well you can try letting some lubricating oil sit in the motor for a while. Pb blaster or diesel would be good for that. You'll probably have it to bore it out some though.

 

Well i tried some of the lubricating oil but i don't really think its gonna do much. But i guess i'll just go ahead and rip out the crank and the pistons since i was planning on doing it anyway. I am planning on doing a complete rebuild so i guess it would have to be done anyway. I just want to try and avoid having to bore it out unless i have to, which its looking like i'm gonna have to anyway. I'll see once i get the crank and pistons out how bad it really is

 

Here's kind of an update on my progress. We're in the process of taking out the crank and the pistons right now, which is proving to be kinda difficult on account that we can't reach all the bolts for the pistons and we can't turn the crank to get to them lol.
But Oh well, we'll figure something out i'm sure. Just have to keep trying.

Here are are some pics of it and some examples of some of the rust thats in the cylinders. The liquid is some penetrating oil that we used to try and loosen them up

A lot of it seems to just be some surface rust though




Heres a picture of the whole block. You can see some of the rust here too




Here's another picture of the block with more rust. Some of thats some old paint too i think




I'll be adding more pics as we progress and i'll keep updating you guys as we (hopefully) make some progress lol

 

well we managed to get the crank out and most of the pistons. We didn't have time to get the rest of them out though so we still need to do that. I think we're gonna try and hone the cylinders a little and see if we can't clean them up some. Here's some pics of some of the cylinders without the pistons in them and the crank. I think the pictures make the rust look worse than it is, but we're planning on cleaning out the cylinders some more so we'll see how bad the rust really is

 

Right way: Get it bored.

Cheap way!(it'll work just fine :P): Hone that sucker out, new rings and you're gtg!

 

Yeah i should get it bored but i don't really want to unless i have to since i'm on kind of a tight budget, but i'm definetely going to hone it out. Its getting a complete rebuild too so, new cam, new gaskets, rings, bearings, etc.

 

The chance of getting by with just a hone is right around zero.
If you're budget is that tight that you want to use the stock pistons, then try to trade the block for one with a good standard bore.
Reusing pistons that you had to beat out of block isn't the best idea either.

 

It depends on how much of an oval his cylinder is. I've rebuilt a couple budget motors with a light honing and the one I still have is still running fine 75k later.

 

Personally, I wouldn't use "305" and "rebuild" in the same sentence. Adding "budget" just makes it an oxymoron.

Either find a 305 shortblock you can run with no work done to it for less than $200 (a year ago I had one I would have given you), or go get a 350 shortblock to rebuild.

 

My budget isn't so tight that i can't use over-sized pistons i'd just rather not unless i have to, which i'm also pretty sure i'm going to have to do. But i believe i can get some pistons with the rebuild kit that i am planning on purchasing for just a little extra $$$. I'm sure it would be good to have some new pistons anyway though.

 

I did actually get a whole 350. A complete one, and for 100 bucks too.

Considering this, i guess the name of the thread should probably be changed, or maybe start a new thread?

 

Well we got all of the pistons out and the cam and crank out and were able to clean some of the rust out of the cylinders. We still need to hone them out and clean them up some more, which i'll do as soon as i get a honing tool to do it with

 

Honestly I think a boring would be in order as well. It looks like you're going to have pits where the rust was.

 

Yeah it probably will be. But I won't know for sure until after I hone them and take it to a macine shop and see what they say. Heres some pics of one of the cylinders before and after


Before:




After:




Next on my list is honing and cleaning the block. Hopefully that all goes well too

 

bore.

 

Your like the 5th person to say that, so as you can probably guess, i'm pretty sure that i already know that i will have to get it bored.

Anyway, I am planning on taking it to the machine shop soon but i haven't decided on a shop yet so i don't really know how much its going to cost. The only problem is that I want a good price but i also want good work. The best of both worlds lol. But i had a friend recommend me to a place called accurate engine service, so i might check them out and see about how much its gonna cost me.

What i'm planning on having done is getting it BORED, decked, line honed, the crank machined, magnafluxed, and vatted. Anything else i might need to get done? Also, anyone have any estimates of about what this will cost me?

 

save your money on getting it decked and line honed those should only be done if its no other option if your on a budget line hone alone can cost well over 200 bucks. last one I had done cost me 480 not including parts thats just the hone. hottank is 50 bucks most of the time bore and hone 160 crank is about 80 to have it turned atleast thats what I paid two weeks ago and that should be right around what to expect with good work. also have your rods recon'd that might cost about 60 bucks

 

Okay. Thanks. That sounds about right. I was figuring about $500 for all of the machine work anyway. And i'll talk to the people at the machine shop and get some prices and i'll see if they think it needs to be decked or line honed when i take it in, wherever i decide to go. But if it doesn't need it then i probably won't do it. Could not having it decked or line honed cause any problems later on?

 

not that I can see. For a mild performance build the best way to see if the mains are in need of honing is when you remove the bearings if their is any blue on the main from overheating, then you might have to hone it had some on mine but it was still in spec. if you switch to main studs you will have to hone them. using the stock deck height will help you keep the compression down also so you can get away with flat tops and 64cc heads and not need to get a thick head gasket. you can get the cheap summit pistons for 84 bucks for the set if want most machine shops want the pistions befor doing a final bore to make sure of clearences

 

I'm guessing the cheap summit pistons will be fine for a mild build like mine. My only real concern now is, heads. Apparently, as i have previously read, swirlies suck and are not going to work to give me around 300 rwhp. so any suggestions on some heads? I know vortecs, but any others? I'd rather have something that won't cost too much too.
Also, i think i will probably be going with the comp xe268 cam instead of the milder one i was considering. I have read that this is a good cam and that it will work well for a build like mine. What do you guys think?

 

old set of camel hump or some 441 (although they are 76cc chambers) would help alot over the heads you have now and you wouldnt have to buy a new intake with a vortec patteren. Their are after market heads that have vortec chambers and 86 down intake set up (thats what I bought)

 

Well, as far as economy the stock 191 heads are supposed to be better, and seeing as how this will be a daily driver i might just go with these for now and see if i can't find a deal on some vortecs later on. How much power will i lose with these as opposed to vortecs?

 

Maybe i looked over it but is this a virgin block (never been bored?)

I would buy a basic rebuild set off summit that fits your desired bore. They are pretty damn cheap. I forgot to add they sell balanced ones too so no need to have a machine shop do it and probably pay more.

I would get the rebuild kit and platigage the mains before spending the money on an align hone, also I would check your deck for straightness using a precision straight edge. Once again no point on getting the block decked unless you need too. If this isn't going to be a high compression motor then you should be fine w/o the block decked.

No doubt you'll need a bore as you already know but don't go hog wild and do .060" over tell the machine shop to go enough to clean up the scratches most likely it won't need more than .010"

 

Those old large chamber heads aren't worth the head gaskets to mount them to a block.

 

Yeah i'm pretty sure that its never been bored. But thats actually what i was going to do was buy a rebuild kit like the ones you mentioned. I might get it from ebay though. Found them cheaper on there. Just gotta make sure i get what i need. And i doubt i'll get it bored more than .020" I doubt i'll need a line hone though. There weren't any spun bearings so it should be okay and the compression ratio probably won't be more than 9.5. I'd still be able to use lower octane (87-89) pump gas on this right?

 

Ya you will be fine...I would think you will be lower anyway depending on what heads you use. Are you looking for a complete rotating assembly crank rods pistons...the whole works?

here is a whole assembly:
https://secure.pawengineparts.com/sh...3179&catid=646

 

Well i'm shooting for probably about 9.3:1 for my compression. 9.5:1 is probably about the highest i'll go since i'll probably be using my stock heads. As for the rotating assembly i will probably just be using the stock one which came out of it. Everything looks to be in good and useable condition so i will probably just re-use them and save some money. Anyone know what the volume is for these stock pistons?

 

Well I was finally able to get around to dropping my block and crank off at the machine shop and was finally able to get it back this past friday, two weeks later. Anyway, they bored it .030 over, vatted it, cleaned it up, pressed the cam bearings and freeze plugs in, turned the crank .010 over on the rods and the mains, and mounted the new pistons on the old rods and cleaned up the rods. All for about $400. Now I just need to get my xe262 cam, a set of vortec heads and an intake to match.

 

Okay, well I haven't really been keeping up to date on this post, but I got my xe262 cam a couple of weeks ago and am planning on putting the shortblock together in the next couple of days. I think I may have found a set of heads that I'm gonna try and look into as well.
Here's some pictures of the block and one of the cylinder's after it got back from the machine shop:

 

Very nice looking block, I'm in the process of assembling my 350 in which had about the same thing done. My project started out as a rebuild on my 305, I ended up having a cracked block. It's kinda funny how things kinda get turned around towards what you really want to do to an engine. I ended up getting the cylinder heads redone as well with mine for another 50 bucks total ended up being 518. Well happy rebuilding!

 

what heads were you thinking about using?

Nice one though good to stick with it. This stuff takes a long time to get sorted, money and what not so it takes patients. Or loads of cash to throw around.

 

I'm gonna try and get some vortecs if i can. I think i found some remanufactured ones for $300 that i might go look at and if i don't like them there's a shop i know of that sells remanufactured heads for like $350. It seem's to be the cheapest and best way to go as far as heads and what i want to do. At least from what i've found anyway

 

After several months of searching i was finally able to pick up a set of rebuilt 906 vortec heads for $275.00. Thank the lord for craigslist

Anyway, the guy said he had them milled .001 and had them checked for cracks and he said they also cleaned up the valves and everything. They look pretty nice for the price though. Here's some pictures:



Still in the bag from the machine shop







Next thing to buy will be my intake manifold. I'm thinking about going with an edelbrock performer intake 2116.

 

You will definately like the power of your engine now that you have held out for the vortecs.

My brother and I just put the 305 in his truck back togather with some mildly ported 059 305 vortec heads and a GMPP Q-Jet intake. His 1980 C10 truck is pretty quick, despite the fact it is running around on the primaries of a q-jet at the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S8A6nD0WMI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWlqAgpEyhc

 

His truck sounds pretty nice. I bet with a properly functioning carb that thing would be pretty quick. Even if it is just a 305.

I think that the guy who is helping me build my engine said we can do some work on the heads, porting and polishing and what not, so that'll probably get done eventually, before the engine gets put together and everything. The only thing i'm really worried about now, is breaking my transmission once i get everything together. Stupid T-5 lol