I have an 87 rs, v6 mfi. about two months ago i was driving with my window down and i drove near a curb, the sound of my car came back at me from the curb, and i heard a soft ticking. it gets faster as i press the throttle and slower at idle. ive driven it since, only a few times in fear of making it worse, and the last time it even died at a light. also i went to pass someone and i stepped on the gas and instantly my car lost power and alomst died, then regained power and went. today i did my oil change, some one told me i may have a sticky lifter and to add a quart of rislone engine treatment in place of the last quart of oil. this is supposed to cure sticky lifters, but no luck, i started my car let it idle for a few min and it died. i started it again, and a min later it died. the whole time the ticking was there. i dont know what to do. the reason i thought lifter was causing it to lose power or die was that if its ticking is always present, maybe the knock sensor was thinking it was knock, causing the ecm to try to retard the timing, but now i have no idea whats up. please help!!

also, no codes flash. when i put the key into on position, the light comes and when i check codes it flashes the begining code then flashes seven at me three times then starts with the begining again. but other than that no codes even when it dies

 

it could be a lifter tick, or a fuel inj. tick (sticking injector), is it pretty louD?? to check injectors, unplug each one and if tick goes away, it's injectors. Could be a exhaust leak. Does it get louder when you give it gas or does it just increase with RPM??

 

the Injectors I do believe are under the plenum ... no way to test them other than bench testing...

 

im putting videos up, with sound of whats going on

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMVeUxcloo0

this first one is the car in park idling, and the ticking happens loudest when i press the gas. the idle will go between 1000 and 500. usually hangs at 750(between 500 and 1000) but will lose power, drop below 500 and pick up again. that happens a few times before it dies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3pRJBjMPTE

this one is from off to idle. after i started it you can hear it almost die then pick up. i was reving it again to hear the same noise from vid one, at about 1:02 i shifted into drive and reved while holding the break down. and about 1:30 i shifted back to park. the noise is much louder and more constant in a drive gear.

 

The sound is most prominent from the drivers side, under the car

 

It's hard to tell from the video for sure, but I'm going to suspect a rod or main bearing that is bad or exhaust leak. What is you oil pressure running at?? idle and reved up??

Go look around the exhaust really close from above and below where it bolts to the head, and where the manifold bolts to the pipe itself, do you see any black streaks coming out, if so that could be where the exhaust is leaking out.
Another thing you can do is take a stethoscope (the things doctors use to listen to your heart), and put a rubber tube on the end of it, and move it around the exhaust when it's running.....you should be able to hear the leak as you get closer to it, it will get real loud in your ears....
you might wanna run it down to a local shop, either mechanics or exhaust/muffler shop. Have them see where the sound is coming from.
Again it's really hard to tell from video,but on the second on it sounds like a main bearing or rod bearing, especially at begining, but on first video, more like exhaust leak, it's one of the two for sure.
If you drive the car down the road, does it only make the sound when accelerating (get louder as you hit gas), or does it also do it on deceleration (when slowing down, put it in first gear and so you can use engine to slow down and listen too).

 

okay, I listened to it a couple more times, I'm not sure on rod/main and exhaust, after listening again, I'm leaning towards exhaust problem.....if it's only coming from driver's side, then it's actually probably an exhaust leak on that manifold (or cracked manifold....try looking for the black marks on the exhaust near engine and see what you find. sometimes it's easier to use a little mirror to see around things, and when motor and exhaust it cold you can actually try to feel for a leak, but careful, the manifold get's hot fast....but it will feel like blowing air where leak is. hope this was helpful

 

its fairly constant. when the car is in park its soft and gets louder as i rev, but seems to go away after the rpms get higher. but maybe thats the engine noise drowning it out. when im driving its louder, gassing it, idle at a light, im not sure about slowing, ill try that today. and yeah the videos were exactly my point of view, its hard to tell in person too. and im sure whatevers causing the sound is causing it to die. ive been trying to avoid the mechanic haha, but maybe it is time if i cant figure it out

 

but whats causing it to die and run so rough, and unreliably?

 

take it to a muffler shop or a transmission shop and ask how much they charge to check your car for a leak or a transmission sound... just play as dumb as you can... ... as long as they get you in the door for the initial diagnostic, I don't think they'll charge you a dime... it's easier to listen to noises on a lift...

 

i called an exhaust shop, theyre gonna check it for free from manifold to tailpipe. im taking it over there in half an hour so ill update when i get back. thanks for the help so far, i might need more though haha

 

BTW, you already checked your timing and ignition components, right?

 

i just changed the rotor cap wires, and plugs, in november. the timing? i havent, how would i do that

 

the timing.... you would need a timing light... again these things that I'm saying are the basics, the least expensive routes...

 

Hey Dylan, One problem I have seen a several times, and that many techs miss, is a cracked flex plate. It will sound just like a rod knock and has caused many unneeded engine pulls. Its hard to distinguish the noise, checking it requires pulling the trans back from the motor, but if it comes down to a mechanical noise, be sure to take a good look at the flexplate before you tear down the motor.

 

i took it to the exhaust place, no leaks. my valve covers are leaking like crazy though. they said the noise is coming from the torque converter area def. so i dont know. i did install the trany and all that myself so maybe a tq converter bolt is coming loose? that still doesnt explain it dying. i called a mechanic and they said theres no way its the timing its computer adjusts that, and offered me a 89 dollar diagnostic. ill look into it myself maybe. any other thoughts?

 

Hey again Dylan, Thinking again about your issue. ESC knock retard can pull 18 degrees out of advance. That alone will not cause engine to die. There is most likely a fuel issue, though an ign failure can cuse similar symptoms. If this car came to me I would look at fuel pressure, MAF voltage, Secondary ign voltage, ECT reported temp vs actual temp, look for a shorted O2 sensor. Also check compression on a few holes just to be sure the engine is healthy. One fairly common issue is worn throttle shaft bushings. The ECM watches TPS to determine integrator and IAC values. Worn throttle shaft will cause TPS to be inconsistent (different with each return to CT) this will confuse ECM and can cause drivability issues. Watch TPS on datastream and look for it to be different by even .02 volts either way on several returns to CT. If it is, suspect worn throttle shaft bushings. Hope this helps.

 

Hey again again Dylan. Checking TSBs on your MY, engine package, I saw a few of those when I was with GM in the early 90s as well. Along with the items I ve already mentioned, check the throttle body for buildup around the throttle blade. This can affect idle and cause stalling. Check for cracking in the EGR tube to the intake plenum, this will be an unmetered air leak. Check the air tube from the MAF to the throttle body, another unmetered air leak. In my previous reply I assumed you have a scan tool. Do you? Also a decent DVOM ( 10M ohms per volt minimum). These are must haves for diagnosing your car. Snap on "bricks" are showing up on e-bay for cheap since they are no longer supported by Snap on. Still great for older vehicles. I keep one in the bottom drawer of my cabinet. Hope this helps.

 

i looked at my maf and realized theres no screen infront of it. usually ive seen a screen in the maf body, infront of the actual sensor, but i dont have one, could that be an issue? i dont have a sensor, ill look into picking one up. and ill try the things youve mentioned, i know a plug that goes into my ign control modual, has a broken clip, and that plug used to come loose and the car would die as soon as it did. i checked it, but ill check again.

 

Before you buy any parts, try unplugging your MAF and running the car. Unplugging the MAF forces the ECM into Memcal so it ignores the MAF and runs on a back up fuel map. If the car runs okay that way, its probably the MAF sensor. Be sure to check the tube between the MAF and throttle body though. Any air leaks there will cause the MAF to read low. Please try not to throw parts at a problem, unless theyre free and known to be good. Buying parts you dont need is a poor substitute for diagnosis. Sorry, Im preaching again. Im an L1 Master Tech of 30+ years and an engine performance specialist. I see guys in my profession waste customers money like its nothing and it makes me nuts. Verify before you buy.

 

Btw, If it comes to that, ohming injectors is possible by accessing the injector harness either at the manifold or ECM. The injectors are divided into two banks of 3 and youll need a wiring diagram to verify color and connector terminals. Each bank should test at 3-4 ohms. A reading of less than 3 ohms points to a shorted injector coil or harness. They can also be tested using a low amp probe and a lab scope but well leave that for later.

 

I unplugged the maf and now its idling between 1000 and 500 but still trying to die. It semed a lot better though at first.

 

So I'm pretty sure the maf is trashed. I unplugged it it idled perfect, I plugged it in it tried to die rpms were irregular, plugged it back in abd it was good with only a little bit of irregularity. I drove with it unplugged and it drove fine, except for the ticking still. I noticed my oil guage dropped to zero when I stopped at a light. The oil stays between 40 and 80 at idle usually it always stayed at 40 so what's up with that? When I got back hom,e I let it idle, still unplugged maf, and plugged it in while it was on and after a few sec the idle got bad

 

If you have a bearing going bad or gone oil pressure will drop to zero.

Normally I'd tell you it's the oil pressure sending unit, but I think all the evidence is here to endicate one of your lower end bearings is gone or on its way out, and if that's the case all the rest of them are close behind it. They can resonate through the whole crankshaft and sound like they're coming from the flexplate area.

Otherwise you have to have 1 or more loose flexplate bolts and a bad oil pressure sending unit.

If it IS a bearing, then the less you drive it the less damage you'll cause. If you catch it early you can reuse your rods and crankshaft.

 

I'm gonna get under there this weekend and check on the flywheel/tq converter see what's up

 

so im kind of getting a sound like yours but it is hard to tell. and i know my torque convert is pretty much on its last legs. so im signing up to this post to see your outcome.

to add some info. my car doesnt want to stall except on start up. and the transmission is having issues shifting and effectively using the power its recieving halfway through the rpm range.

 

I had the same kind of problem a few months ago actually. With my trany, I had issues, when it would shift it felt like it was trying to jump out of the car. Eventually I thought I had an issue with misfire, but it turned out my trany was blown.due to a major leak. The engine couldn't turn the unlubed metal on metal inside the trany. I replaced the trany, myself, with a trany out of a 91 firebird and problem solved. The trany I got even had a shift kit haha. So check your fluids first, that's how my trany went.

I'm gonna get under m/y car Sunday and see what's up ill update ypu guys then

 

Hey dylan, Sorry I didint get back sooner. Busy diaging cars at work. Again, check carefully for air leaks in the tube from your MAF to throttle body. The test you performed proves you have a bad MAF signal. If no leaks, clean the MAF first. If you have access to a scan tool, use it to read MAF data before cleaning the MAF, then compare readings after cleaning. Should see some difference. To clean use CRC MAF cleaner from local parts store. Your oil pressure issue is a concern. Check your oil for fuel contamination. Is it thinned out? Smell like gas? This is common with overfueling. Change oil if theres any question. Once oil is good, remove your oil pressure sending unit and install a 100psi gauge. The clearance to the firewall is tricky and you may need to use an elbow. Warm up the engine and watch pressure on the gauge. This will verify whether your engine is worn out or just your sending unit. Good job finding the MAF issue.

 

BTW, if cleaning doesnt fix the MAF sensor, replace it.

 

As far as oil pressure, I did add a quart of rislone oil treatment in place of a quart of oil when I changed it (to free sticky lifters I thought I had). You think that'd thin it out too much? When I changed the oil it didn't smell like gas, and I havent put gas since. The air tube is fine, infact I took it off, and I took the whole throttle body off, changed the gasket, and cleaned the whole unit with crc (I think) throttle body cleaner. Now it looks new. So I'm sure the problem with my car dying is the maf. As for the ticking, its still there.

 

ASE doc, thank you for the MAF. You suggested it. And thanks for the help so far. Thanks to everyone too. I'm confident ill figure this out with all the advice I'm getting

 

I hope you didnt clean the MAF with throttle body cleaner. Oh well its done anyway. So ya know, throttle body cleaner is carb cleaner. MAF cleaner is a quick dry electronic cleaner, big difference. Throttle body cleaner will toast a MAF sensor. Rislone shouldn't thin oil excessively. If it was thinned out from overfueling you would have noticed it. It will run right off the stick. Do the oil pressure test and remember, check the flexplate. You may not be able to tell much without pulling the tranny. It will be cracked right around the crank bolt circle. Also, hows your tranny mount? Not broken is it?

 

I didn't clean the maf with throttle body cleaner.

 

My mount isn't broken either.

 

Hey dylan, Sorry if i come across as a jerk. Im old and sometimes crotchety. Plus i just quit smoking. I didnt mean to imply you'd ruined your MAF. Its obvious it was already gone. I was just making sure you knew the difference in chemicals. Have you figured out how to check oil pressure yet? I often make things sound easier than they are. You really need to test though before you condem your motor. BTW, if your motor is bad, A TPI V8 bolts right in. Of course you have to install the harness and ECM to go with it but Ive done the conversion a few times and its cool. Lol. Did you find anything on your flexplate or converter yet?

 

no, its ok. i did try the maf cleaner, and nothing. i noticed my oil pressure guage is twitchy, also. but for the test where would i get a 100 psi guage? and where is the sending unit located on the motor? i also havent got a chance to get under the car, been working alot.

a motor swap is a dream of mine, ive planned a 383. i have a 350 block ready to be machined and for the parts, its just expensive. i wanna do the motor right, and get some serious power. like i said its all planned out haha, im just trying to keep the v6 running until its all ready. would the 700r4 i have now bolt to a 350? i got the trany out of a 90some firebird same 2.8l. if itd bolt on id consider doing that, with a 350, until the 383 is ready

 

Update: I bought a new maf, and problem solved, for the dying, irregular idle. Half an hour after I bought the part, I drove it before I put it in to see how it was before and after, I only planned on driving from the exit of my apt complex to the entrance, about 800 ft, and as I turned into the entrance, I was hit by a girl speeding. So my camaro is totaled now, how depressing.

 

so you were making a left into your apartment complex?

 

Yeah I was.

 

Did the officer that arrived at the scene tell you, you were mostly at fault?

Here in Cali that's called "failed to yield the right of way" or something like that.. despite of the other vehicles speed, any car making a turn must yield to all oncoming traffic... yeah I know it's all

 

Yeah I " failed tyield the right of way". That's why my insurance company decided I was at fault. And mines not getting fixed only theirs

 

Damn! Wait till hers gets fixed and....ummmmm....ya!

 

Haha I get it. Too bad her was already a piece, otherwise ummmm yeah

 

get yourself a new rolling bird and transplant the hardware that's worth the transplant... side impact, especially if you say she was speeding isn't going to be a salvageable repair.. .

 

Yeah the estimate was almost 3000in damage. I'm looking around for another maroon. V8 this time. It'll make for an easier swap or build. But well see. Its the worst seeing your baby like that.