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valve adjustment problem?

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Old May 16, 2010 | 09:17 PM
  #1  
mgilorma's Avatar
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From: Lansdale Pa
Car: 90 RS
Engine: 305 TBI - LT1 Cam
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: Stock Crap
valve adjustment problem?

Finally got my engine running again, it sound terrible though. I'm guessing I didn't adjust the valves correctly. I followed ShiftyCapone's how to in the lt1 cam swap in the tbi forum (since I did this swap). I first did the cold adjustment, then once I got it started, I tried to adjust them while the car was running, but it was shooting oil all over the exhaust and smoking like crazy, so I just tried real quick to tighten the ones that seemed loose.

here's a video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDzFBlDD7Sk

Any tips or thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Old May 16, 2010 | 11:54 PM
  #2  
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From: Arlington, Tx
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: empty bay (for now)
Transmission: Built T-56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 stock posi disc
Re: valve adjustment problem?

You dont need the car running to adjust the lifters. Just get the car to operating temp then do this:
  1. Remove the valve covers.
  2. Identify the number one cylinder. Turn the engine over until you see the number one cylinder exhaust valve rocker arm JUST START to move from the closed position to open. You may need to turn the motor over a couple of times to reach this point, but do not turn any further.
  3. Locate the intake valve.
  4. Using the thumb and index finger of one hand, grasp the intake push rod below the rocker arm, and rotate it back and forth (clock-wise and counter clock-wise successively to be sure there is no remaining pressure on the push rod from the rocker arm as you loosen the rocker arm adjusting nut.
  5. Using the other hand, while continuously performing step 5, with a 5/8 socket and ratchet, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut slowly until you feel a resistance of motion on the push rod.
  6. This will be the zero lash adjustment point. For hydraulic lifters, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut 3/4 of a turn. For solid lifters, back off the rocker arm adjustment nut until your feeler gauge just fits under the contact point between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Fine tune the adjustment by checking it with a feeler gauge just slightly thicker than the preferred clearance to be sure the clearance is not greater than it should be. If the larger feeler gauge will fit, it needs to be re-adjusted. A lash tolerance of 1-2 thousandths of an inch in the valve adjustment for solid lifters would be acceptable since it may be difficult for someone who is in-experienced to be more precise than that.
  7. Turn the engine over until the intake valve opens and then is almost closed.
  8. On the exhaust valve, repeat steps 5 through 8 for the exhaust valve adjustment.
  9. Repeat this procedure for each cylinder. Be sure to do each cylinder sequentially, either following the firing order, following the cylinders numerically, or in the case of a V8 doing one side of the engine at a time. I prefer to do one side of the engine at a time.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 06:35 AM
  #3  
game1939's Avatar
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Joined: Feb 2010
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From: savannah, ga
Car: 91 chevy camaro
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700r4 built with corvette servo
Axle/Gears: posi 3:73
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Originally Posted by travis401
You dont need the car running to adjust the lifters. Just get the car to operating temp then do this:
  1. Remove the valve covers.
  2. Identify the number one cylinder. Turn the engine over until you see the number one cylinder exhaust valve rocker arm JUST START to move from the closed position to open. You may need to turn the motor over a couple of times to reach this point, but do not turn any further.
  3. Locate the intake valve.
  4. Using the thumb and index finger of one hand, grasp the intake push rod below the rocker arm, and rotate it back and forth (clock-wise and counter clock-wise successively to be sure there is no remaining pressure on the push rod from the rocker arm as you loosen the rocker arm adjusting nut.
  5. Using the other hand, while continuously performing step 5, with a 5/8 socket and ratchet, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut slowly until you feel a resistance of motion on the push rod.
  6. This will be the zero lash adjustment point. For hydraulic lifters, tighten the rocker arm adjustment nut 3/4 of a turn. For solid lifters, back off the rocker arm adjustment nut until your feeler gauge just fits under the contact point between the valve stem and the rocker arm. Fine tune the adjustment by checking it with a feeler gauge just slightly thicker than the preferred clearance to be sure the clearance is not greater than it should be. If the larger feeler gauge will fit, it needs to be re-adjusted. A lash tolerance of 1-2 thousandths of an inch in the valve adjustment for solid lifters would be acceptable since it may be difficult for someone who is in-experienced to be more precise than that.
  7. Turn the engine over until the intake valve opens and then is almost closed.
  8. On the exhaust valve, repeat steps 5 through 8 for the exhaust valve adjustment.
  9. Repeat this procedure for each cylinder. Be sure to do each cylinder sequentially, either following the firing order, following the cylinders numerically, or in the case of a V8 doing one side of the engine at a time. I prefer to do one side of the engine at a time.
what did you do just copy and paste this right out of one of my moany post where i once again had to explain this? LOL!!!! GOOD JOB SOMEONE DID SOME RESEARCH...... no just playing you guys im glad some one is taking me advice, but anyways good luck mgilorma.. and keep up the good work travis401......
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Old May 17, 2010 | 06:40 AM
  #4  
Atilla the Fun's Avatar
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From: Northern Utah
Car: seeking '90.5-'92 'bird hardtop
Engine: several
Transmission: none
Axle/Gears: none
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Originally Posted by game1939
what did you do just copy and paste this right out of one of my moany post where i once again had to explain this? LOL!!!! GOOD JOB SOMEONE DID SOME RESEARCH...... no just playing you guys im glad some one is taking me advice, but anyways good luck mgilorma.. and keep up the good work travis401......
I like this. It's a good way to explain a good method. Except I'd go with 90-180 degrees rather than "3/4 of a turn", especially in a performance build.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 06:45 AM
  #5  
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From: Enschede, Netherlands
Car: 82 TA 87 IZ L98 88 IZ LB9 88 IZ L98
Engine: 5.7TBI 5,7TPI 5.0TPI, 5,7TPI
Transmission: T5, 700R4, T5, 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.08, 3.27, 3.45, 3.27
Re: valve adjustment problem?

You don't even need to stick to a method, all you need to know is that you adjust the lifter on the base circle. This means, if the other valve is open a fair amount you know you're not in the overlap section.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 10:43 AM
  #6  
game1939's Avatar
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From: savannah, ga
Car: 91 chevy camaro
Engine: 383
Transmission: 700r4 built with corvette servo
Axle/Gears: posi 3:73
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Originally Posted by Atilla the Fun
I like this. It's a good way to explain a good method. Except I'd go with 90-180 degrees rather than "3/4 of a turn", especially in a performance build.
running my 480 horse 383 with 3/4 turn not a problem....
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Old May 17, 2010 | 10:52 AM
  #7  
mgilorma's Avatar
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From: Lansdale Pa
Car: 90 RS
Engine: 305 TBI - LT1 Cam
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: Stock Crap
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Here's the method I used, I noticed that when following the cold adjustment method that depending if #1 cylinder or # 6 cylinder was on tdc, there were a few rockers on each side that were very loose. (this is after I adjusted all the valves). Is this normal?

Next time I get some time I am going to adjust one cylinder at a time and see what results I get with that method.

I also saw online that some people have cut an opening in an old valve cover so they could adjust the valves while the engine is running with out shooting oil all over the place. I might try that method as well if I need to.

Thanks for the replies guys

Originally Posted by ShiftyCapone
Step Thirteen – Valvetrain re-assembly

At this point you can re-install the lifters, pushrods and rocker arms. Before you install the pushrods and lifters it is important that you soak them in oil for a few hours prior to installation. After soaking the lifters in oil slide them down into their appropriate holes in the block. Slide the lifter retaining plate over them. You may have 6to rotate the lifters to get the plate to seat correctly. They have two flat sides to them that keep the lifter from rotating once installed. Once the lifters and plates are in place you can re-attach the lifter retainer/spider bracket. It is held in with three ½ bolts and may require you to push down on it to seat it against the block. The tabs are preloaded in a sense to keep the lifter plates seated. You can now slide the pushrods back in place making sure that they are seated and centered into the top of the lifter. You only need to slide them in at this point. Next you will need to place the rocker arms and bolt them down. Don’t tighten them down too much. At this point you need to set the valve lash. There are many ways of setting the valve lash. You can do it with the engine cold or with the engine hot. I have done both methods and I almost prefer the hot method.

Method one: Cold adjustment

Place the engine at #1 TDC. You should already be here if you followed the timing chain install correctly. If you are unsure you can place your finger over the #1 spark plug hole and rotate the motor. When you feel the pressure build up against your finger you are close to TDC. Stop when the balancer grove aligns with the 0 mark on the timing tab. To adjust a valve, slowly tighten the rocker arm nut until all clearance between the pushrod and rocker arm is removed. This is zero lash. Tighten the nut another ¾ turns to preload the lifter. To ensure that you are at zero lash observe the following tips

-Move the pushrod up and down until all the clearance between the pushrod and rocker arm is removed.
-Spin the pushrod as you tighten the rocker nut. As soon as you feel some drag on the pushrod turn the nut another ¾ turn and stop.

Now that you know how to properly adjust the valves you need to do so in the following order.
With the #1 piston at TDC adjust the #1, #2, #5 and #7 intake valves and the #1, #3, #4 and #8 exhaust valves. Rotate the crank (using your crank tool if you haven’t installed the balancer yet, or by turning the crank bolt after the balancer is installed) 360°. The motor will now be at #6 TDC firing and #1 TDC exhaust. Adjust the #3, #4, #6 and #8 intake valves and the #2, #5, #6 and #7 exhaust valves as mentioned above.

Method two – Hot adjustment

After you have the motor fired you can adjust the valves. If you haven’t put the motor back together you will need to hold off and return to this step when you are ready. You will need to do the adjustment with the valve covers left off. This can be messy so be prepared for a little clean-up afterwards. You will adjust the valves one at a time. It doesn’t matter which one you start with but I like to start at the front of the motor and work my way back. Back off the rocker nut until you hear the rocker start to make a loud clanking/ticking sound. Tighten the nut slowly until the noise goes away. You are now at zero lash and can give ½ to ¾ more turn to preload the lifter. Adjust each valve after the same way.

Step Fourteen – Distributor installation

Now that you have the intake manifold installed you can put the distributor back in. To do so make sure that you have the distributor cap left off so that you can watch the movement of the rotor. Before you start make sure that the motor is at #1 TDC. It doesn’t matter if you are on the firing stroke or the exhaust stroke. You will determine that by your placement of the distributor. You can now slide the distributor back in. As you install it make sure that you do so with the rotor pointing towards the #1 cylinder and plug wire route. This will make things easier down the road and will keep the distributor in the stock location so that you can follow the plug wire route diagram found in any repair manual. As you slide in the distributor it will rotate slightly as the distributor gear meshes with the cam gear. When it is seated ensure that the rotor points to the #1 cylinder at the front of the motor. If it isn’t quiet pointed right you can pull the distributor, rotate it just a hair, and slide it back in. You can now screw the cap back on. This is another perfect time to ensure that you line up the rotor with the #1 cylinder. Use your markings that you previously put on your distributor cap to verify that the rotor is pointing to the #1 terminal. Place the hold down tab in place and tighten the 9/16 bolt down. You can now install the plugs and plugs wires in their proper routing. Refer to a Haynes and or Chilton’s manual for the correct diagram.

Step Fifteen – Setting the timing

Now that you have everything installed and put back together you can fire up the motor and set the timing. If you were careful enough to make sure that everything was aligned and positioned according to the #1 TDC position of the motor it should fire up without much effort. It may turn over a bit before it builds oil pressure as well as re-filling the fuel lines that were previously emptied. After the motor fires you can proceed to set the timing. Get your timing gun ready and clip the power wire to the positive terminal of the battery as well as the main wire to the #1 plug wire. The timing gun is now in sync with the motor. Locate and unplug the EST wire (see picture ??). The EST wire is located on the rear of the motor near the firewall on the passenger side. It is commonly found near the strut mount or just aft of it. Unplugging this wire disconnects the ECM from the distributor. The motor may stall if the timing is too far off. The reason it most likely won’t stall with the EST plug is that the ECM will make corrections to keep the motor running. Hold the timing light over the timing tab and read the mark that the light blinks on. If your timing is way off you will see the balancer slot light up off the timing tab. To advance the timing you want to loosen the 9/16 hold down bolt (do not remove it, just loosen it) and turn the distributor clockwise to retard the timing and counter clock wise to advance it. Try to turn it with one hand while you point and monitor the light on the balancer and timing tab. Sometimes it helps to have a buddy turn the distributor for you. Turn it until you reach your desired timing setting. Most LT1 cam swaps will need 8° or more advance to keep them running on the stock tune. If you set it to the factory 0° the motor will most likely stall. When you have set your timing you can re-plug the EST. It is now a good time to unplug the negative battery cable to re-set the SES light that is tripped by disconnecting the EST.


Picture ?? – EST wire connection
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Old May 17, 2010 | 10:56 AM
  #8  
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: valve adjustment problem?

A common problem with beginners adjusting their hydraulic lifter preload is that they are not starting out with the lifter plunger in the fully pumped-up position up against the retaining clip. This results in too much preload on some of the lifters.

Generally speaking, less preload is better in a performance application, but it all depends on the particular lifter design. Most of my builds perform best with no more than 0.010" preload.
This small amount of preload preserves more seat pressure from the valvespring - improving valve control, and reduces the amount of power loss from lifter pump-up.

Make sure all of your lifter plungers are in the fully up position in the lifter body before you start your adjustment.
I don't recommend doing these adjustments with the engine running.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 11:16 AM
  #9  
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From: Fairview Heights Illinois
Car: 1986 Irocz
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.25:1
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Originally Posted by mgilorma
Here's the method I used, I noticed that when following the cold adjustment method that depending if #1 cylinder or # 6 cylinder was on tdc, there were a few rockers on each side that were very loose. (this is after I adjusted all the valves). Is this normal?
This is another common mistake.
A lot of folks don't realize that once you adjust your lifter preload, that if you turn the engine over by hand a couple of times the spring pressure will push oil out of the lifters and collapse them. This will make it look like there is more slop that needs to be adjusted out. This is wrong. Once they are adjusted once correctly, do not go back and tighten them more.

I don't go by TDC or markings on the damper.
Look at each rocker pair. As you turn the engine by hand CLOCKWISE, the exhaust valve opens first. When you see the exhaust rocker just start to open, you adjust THAT intake rocker of that pair.

When you see the intake rocker of that pair almost closed, then you adjust THAT exhaust rocker of that pair.

You can't go wrong with this method if you started out with the lifter plungers in the full up position.

With stock type crimp nuts it is usually best to run approx 1/2 turn of preload.

In a performance application that should be using lock type rocker nuts (poly or posi-locks), you can use less than 1/2 turn of preload, and/or use a dial indicator to measure the preload.

If the valvetrain parts are all new and you are using minimal preload, then it is common to have to re-do this adjustment after some break-in.
Some people choose to add the extra preload initially to avoid the extra check later.
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Old May 17, 2010 | 01:17 PM
  #10  
travis401's Avatar
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From: Arlington, Tx
Car: 91 Camaro RS
Engine: empty bay (for now)
Transmission: Built T-56
Axle/Gears: 3.42 stock posi disc
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Originally Posted by game1939
what did you do just copy and paste this right out of one of my moany post where i once again had to explain this? LOL!!!! GOOD JOB SOMEONE DID SOME RESEARCH...... no just playing you guys im glad some one is taking me advice, but anyways good luck mgilorma.. and keep up the good work travis401......
I sure did. Ive seen many a thread about adjusting valve lash with you posting that, so I figured Id join in on the trend.
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Old May 19, 2010 | 09:06 PM
  #11  
mgilorma's Avatar
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From: Lansdale Pa
Car: 90 RS
Engine: 305 TBI - LT1 Cam
Transmission: T56
Axle/Gears: Stock Crap
Re: valve adjustment problem?

Thanks for all the help guys, the methods in this thread worked way better than the method I tried first. Here's a new video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvGNCe6_z-E
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