im still messing with the timing on my 87 iroc camaro, i have the est wire disconnected. i start the car and it somewhat runs choppy so i have my timing light on it and when i start to get it to 0 degrees and start advancing it to 6 the motor starts rasing alil bit on the rpms but the motor starts making poping noises and like you can feel it if you put your hand on the motor. i just dont know what it is but if i go to like retard it and drop it down before 0 deg it stops but then it idles really low then just shuts off. any ideas on what it could be

 

Don't mean to be repetitive, but it sounds like you may not be disconecting the EST wire, maybe something else? I'm attaching a couple of pics of the EST wire and where it is located inside the plastic wire organizer that passes over the heater box. Are you sure you're following the steps explained on the https://www.thirdgen.org/settingtiming technical article? I'm not trying to insult your intelligence, I'm just trying to help, maybe you're doing something wrong?

 

i understand and thanks for you help. i did look at the article but i think i might not be gettiing right on tdc. i mean i put my finger in the hole in the number cyl and i turn the motor until i feel air pushing my finger then i just line the mark on my balancer up and then i take the cap off and line the rotor up close to the number one cyl then i fire the car and it starts and yea i have the est wire off now and when i start to advance to 0 and move up to 6deg it starts making a poping noise but when i hit the throttle it souneds heathly what am i doing wrong. i love the car but its just making me mad and i dont wanna sell it over something this stupid

 

Doing the finger thing in the #1 cylinder will confirm that you're on the compression cycle. Make sure the piston is all the way up by GENTLY inserting a small screw driver and feeling the piston go all the way up as you rotate the engine BY HAND!!! When it is all the way up, don't turn the engine at all, but make sure to see where the mark on the balancer is located in relation to the marker that tells the degrees of advance without moving the balancer, don't turn the engine you're just looking and evaluating at this point.

When the #1 piston is on TDC, the mark on the balancer should be on 0* (cero degrees) regardless of where the rotor is pointing at. When you have checked this very carefully, then you can adjust your distributor to make sure the rotor is pointing directly to the wire going to spark plug #1 and should be very close to 0*, then you should be able to start your engine and adjust the timing accordingly.

Last but not least, off course you don't want to sell your car for something this stupid, you'll get it fixed!!! If I can't help you, someone else here will! Keep trying and you'll get it right. One question, have you taken the distributor out? What started this timing issue?

 

thank you for your help and i have take the dist out numerous times. its acted up because i bought the new motor and i needed to time it ever since then and everytime i did it i just didnt get it right or it kept making the poping noises but todays the first day i tried it with the est wire disconnected i never knew about that till like a few days ago someone told me about it i just wanna get it doneso i can drive her around lucklly i have a nice size garage to store it and do the work in

 

New motor? Popping noise? Where is the noise coming from? Intake or exhaust? I assume that when you talk about timing 0-6 degrees, your using a timing light. Referrence timing is only used to get the engine to where it will start and run. From there you rely on the light. If the engine will start, you obviously have the timing somewhere close. To return to referrence timing at this point is somewhat useless.

A few points to be looked at are: First, chevy V8s were available with two different timing tab locations for various applications. One was at 2 o'clock as viewed from the front. The other was at 12 o'clock. The timing mark on the balancer is different from one to the other to match the location of the timing tab. Be sure that youre not being misled by a situation such as this. The balancers and timing covers are interchangeable making a mismatch possible. To check for this, you need to verify that the keyway in the balancer lines up with the timing notch. This balancer goes with the timing tab at 2 o'clock.

Second, popping in the intake is a symptom of exhaust valves that aren't openning. Popping from the exhaust may be valves that are stuck open. Are your valves adjusted correctly?

 

the motor is used just new to me haha. the poping noises are coming from the inside of the motor but it only starts poping once i get it at 0 degs and start moving towards 6 if i retard it it goes away. how would i know if the valves are stuck or adjusted right. and the timing tab i think is at 2oclock my motor was a v belt setup but the motor i bought has a serp setup which screwed me because the altenator and ac are reveresed then my stock setup. i just dont know btw i needed to move my car and i had to drive it at night and i drove it and all it wanted to do was spin wheels but that was when i timed it with out unplugging the est wire like a week back. i only started the motor a handful of times at my first garage and then i drove it to my new garage because i blew the rear in my truck but now its just sittin g there and i need to re time it i guess because i disconnected the est wire

 

This is confusing me. The popping comes from inside the motor? Ill assume that its in the intake. To check valve adjustment, you need to remove the valve covers. If this noise is being caused by misadjusted exhaust valves, youll know it. To cause this type of symptom the exhaust valve on atleast one cylinder has to be not opening at all. This would mean that the rocker arm for that valve is completely loose. However, if you think it has good power, that doesnt really jive with the exhaust valve issue.

Did you install the intake manifold yourself? Are you sure you got it sealed completely?

 

i bought the motor the way it was together the only thing i did was put a new distributor in and yea when i drove it the car had ***** it ran good but ijust dont kno i hope the valves arent loose but ill have to check tomorrow. what else could it be

 

The engine ran good with the timing set at 0? What did the motor come out of?

 

it came out of a 88 camaro or gta i think it was a camaro becuase the motor has a serp belt setup my old motor was a v belt and when i drove it i had it at like 12 degs but the thing is it wouldnt run with the maf plugged in so i unplugged it and drove hope i didnt mess anything up it was for only ten mins hope this helps

 

How many different post are you going to start on here? 1-2-3, we are all trying to help and are all coming up with the same answers. Maybe you should take your car to a mechanic for help?

 

well if you looked i did two different posts in two different sections im sorry i care about my car and wanna get it on the road. i wanna try and figured it out before takiing it to some mechanic who is gonna screw me on the price. its good to know your car instead of having other people fix it for you. its hard to describe what is wrong i did mostly everything everyone told me besides check the valves. maybe you shouldnt reply to any of my posts anymore if your gonna make a big deal about it.

 

Sorry, no big deal, just coudn't understand why all the post's with the same questions.

 

I mean I did only two different posts under two different boards. If you could only understand how much stress something this stupid is causing me. I been messing with it for a while

 

Don't make a big deal out of this, I was just concerned about the different post's. We are all in need of help once and a while. But when you have a problem and start a new post with the same problem, and are getting basically the same answers from different people, there's no reason for another post, just keep one going to try to resolve the problem. Again, don't take offense, but we are all here to help. Now as for your problem, have you checked your distributor to make sure it's dead on #1 on TDC.

 

Your story keeps changing and its hard for us to keep up.

You got the motor from Craigslist, junkyard, a friend, off your truck maybe? The reason I ask is the same reason ASE Doc told you about the timing tabs. If you got it off a truck and the timing tab is straight up and you are trying to time it at 2 oclock you will never get it timed right.

If you have the distributor 180 degrees off and try to time it that way, it will sputter and pop and just plain wont start.

Look over the posts by ASE Doc and Davidgou again, they have the right idea there.

What I would do is take the cap off the distributor, pull spark plug #1 (drivers side, closest one to the front of the engine) and stuff a rag into the spark plug hole. Crank the engine over by hand and when you hear a puff and the rag shoots out, that should be Top Dead Center. That should be on the compression stroke and not shoot it out on the exhaust stroke.

Verify that the rotor is pointed at #1 spark plug hole and that the line in the balancer is at 0.

In which direction are you turning the distributor by hand to retard the timing?

 

 

Lucid is the man!

 

I am an ASE Master auto tech L1. Ive made a life of auto repair for 35 years and today I make my living diagnosing and repairing cars at a shop here in Portland. The suggestion that some mechanic is going to overcharge you is a bit of a slam, but Ill try not to take it personally. I love my 3rd gen and do my best as a member of TGO to help other members to diagnose and repair their own cars.

Your problem may be more serious than any adjustment can cure. You may very well have installed an engine with real internal issues. A qualified technician could verify this fairly quickly. The cost for diag at most shops is about $90. This could be the best investment youve made in a while.

 

i got the motor from craigslist. it came out of a 88 or later firebird or camaro im not sure. i know its 88 or later because its all a serp belt setup. my question is, the second the rag pops out is that mean its top dead center, because i did that before but i was cranking the motor little by little and the rag popped out but then the motor spun back alil bit so i figured it was off. someone told me to get a piston stop tool that screws into the head.

 

When the rag pops out that should be Top Dead Center. You might hear a small puff from the exhaust stroke, but there is a distinct difference at the end of the compression stroke.

If you crank the engine over with a ratchet, it may make it simpler for you to control the speed and not overshoot it.

You should be able to verify its at TDC by looking at the timing tab and the timing mark should be right where the hole is on the timing tab. If you can reach the balancer, I would mark the slot on the balancer, called the timing mark, with something. A white stripe is easier to see than a black area.

 

The issue with the OP looking for top dead center is that hes already got the motor running. Static, or referrence timing at this point, will not help him. Hes had a light on it trying to advance beyond zero degrees. Unless he has mismatched timing tab and balancer, there is something internal to the engine causing the popping noise as he advances towards 6 degrees. It may be misadjusted valves. Otherwise it could be bottom end or a damaged piston/cylinder. Of course, im assuming that he is performing the timing procedure correctly.

 

Being from the old school, I had a 67 Pontiac GTO with a 400 and the timing chain jumped and it made a slight popping noise. I turned the dist a little to quiet it down till I had time to fix it.

You have had some great advice from the members here and I'll be honest, its time to get Med-evil on that engine and start dismantling it to find out whats wrong. I know that you can do it! Sometimes its a process of elimination and it can be time consuming and a down right pain in the A@@.

Start with the basic's like dist cap,coil, ohm injectors, vac hoses, plug wires compression test, fuel pressure test.

Having a checklist and marking them off one at a time will help you zero in on the problem.

Take advantage of the people giving you great advice here and get the ratchet & wrenches turning.

I wish you the best and hope you get it fixed soon.

 

When you set the timing and plug the EST wire back in, are there any trouble codes set?

Make sure you dont have the last two spark plug wires on the passenger side crossed.

When you stated you put a new distributor in, was it a brand new or rebuilt or a junkyard unit?

Its entirely possible that there is internal engine damage, but I would hate for you to start taking apart a motor without checking to see if the ignition module is faulty or a bad MAF sensor is making your car run crappy (just examples).

Another thing, did you put the V belt pulleys on your "new" engine or did you keep the serpentine setup?

 

I've had this issue with the tabs and balancers....Great of you to point this out!!!

 

the distributor is from my old motor. when i timed it before and drove it i never did the est wire thing. i just found out about it and when i drove the car for a lil it drove fine it had alot of power. i really dont wanna take the motor apart iknow i might have to. i do have a big garage so it wouldnt be a problem. and the new motor came with the serp setup so it has all the right pullies and also i pulled the valve covers off because someone told me to and all the rocker arms where tight but idk how there suppose to be. the sound almost sounds like a exhaust leak

 

When you are advancing the timing, I believe you turn the distributor by hand in a counterclockwise direction. If you are turning it in the wrong direction you will be retarding the timing.

I think your problem is a that the car is not "timed" correctly, that the spark plug is firing either way too soon or way too late to ignite the mixture correctly.

Clean the timing tab with a rag so you can get a good look at it.

On the timing tab, the left side is advanced and the right side is retarded. Looking from the timing tab from the front of the engine towards the balancer.



If you are turning the distributor by hand and your timing mark is on the right side of 0 then its retarded at TDC.

You will want to get around 6* advance with the EST wire disconnected, which corresponds to the static timing of the engine. This is what is calibrated in the PROM in your ECM.

When you plug the EST wire in, the ECM controls the dynamic timing and advances it automatically from there.

All of this assumes that you are on the compression stroke and NOT the exhaust stroke.

 

well i never tried timing it with the est wire disconnected. everytime i timed it i had the wire always plugged in. im gonna try this asap. right now the altenator is off because i had the valve covers off. and i also have to change the power steering pump what a PITA but hope it runs right thanks for all of your guys help its a real pain to see the car sit and watch everyone driving if i had loyal friends around here to help the car would prob be done

 

I understand what you mean about the friends Bro!!!

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

Now we're getting somewhere. Try timing the motor with the EST disconnected. I was assuming you'd aleady done that. That's what I get for assuming.

 

What I don't get is why was his car running fine at a some point and now it doesn't. What changed? Maybe I missed something here.

 

it ran fine when i timed it but i just timed it with my light so i could drive it but then it got outta wack againg and then i messed with it again and then someone told me to unplug the est wire first and i havent messed with it yet. today i had to take the power steering pump out because i kept blowing belts and i found out that the shaft on the power steering was moving all over the place causing the pulley to be out of wack. it took me all day to get the pulley off and i finally got the pump out just gotta buy a new pump then im gonna try and fire her up and hope for the best i just am gonna use all the advice everyone has given me and hope it helps which i think it will

 

yea man it sucks. as fast as they can say yes to help you. they can be faster to stab you in the back and b/s you

 

whats the latest did you ever get your car running and timed properly