I think as a gear head its far too easy to get carried away. There's always an upgrade and a few more ponies. Its easy to start with intentions of a street car and finish with an untamable beast. So how can you figure a good ballpark power demand? I'm thinkin... Why feed 400 horses if 300 will do the job. So I say, with a 3300 pound car, T5 and 2.73 rears, how much hp/tq to have a balanced weekend cruiser, that also pumps the adrenaline when you stomp on it?

What's your combination? How do you describe your 3rd gens drivability? Sluggish, spirited, street friendly, race ready?

 

440hp was a good weekend fun for me. But that was a 406sbc turbo350 2400stall 3.55 gear. That was in my firebird i can tell u with my camaro i HATE the 2.73 gear. Change that first

 

440 horse and 3.55 seems kind of aggressive. How was the rpm on the highways 65-75mph?

 

With no overdrive ya it sucked. The 3.55 was stock. With your t5 u could probably run 3.23 and be good.

 

Yeah I've heard good about 3.23.... How bad would 2.73 be? Side note- is anybody pleased with their perfomance?

 

My camaro now has 2.73, good if all u want is mileage an cruise. I want to change to a 3.05 since i dont have overdrive. if u want some fun on the side change gears then start playin with power. Goin to a 3.23 will make a big change.

 

i had the 2.73 then swaped out for a t5 and 3.73 big difference i love the new gears


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A nice round 350 to the wheels in my old 88 Z28 was awesome. More would've been better, but it was my daily driver with no problem and could still take on the majority of cars I would run into on a regular basis. Some suspension work, carved through the corners and couldn't help but smile when I hit it on the exit. 350 rwhp I think is a perfect medium

 

I've never drove the car so I guess I can't have much of an opinion. I bought it with no engine or trans. Trying to keep myself from falling into the pit too far. I've read over countless threads of "street" cars with 400+ hp and 3.55 or 3.73 gears. I guess I was just wondering if it really takes that much to make the Camaro enjoyable. I've never drove ANY Camaro. So stock, they must really suck. With the 195 +/- hp and 2.73?

I built a Mustang once. I didn't do much research, and it was a waste. 302 with a tbi set up. C4 3 Speed and and 3.27. With no bolt on goodies, it would light the tires way toooo easy. Undrivable in rain, 0 to 60 in holy ****, and turned a bit over 4000 rpm at 70. Trying not to repeat mistakes.

 

Been there done that. It seems I get "used" to that next level of performance and want more... More... MORE!!! It's when I go from a recreational user to a full blown addict!

Seriously, 600HP fully tubbed street cars are great but can be hard to live with sometimes. For most people an honest 300WHP is what they would call a bad-*** car. It depends on what you are looking for. Most of the time I am just driving it to work or around on the weekend so performance levels above that are just frustrating. Nothing worse that fouling plugs on a beast cause you gotta lope it around in traffic. Everybody is looking at you expecting you to "get on it".

I currently target 300-350WHP level with a "Shot" of nitrous when I get the urge. It's a blast to drive but still has AC cruise a killer stereo and looks stock. I pass cops and they don't give me a second look.

As far as gearing, with an overdrive (man or auto) a 3.70ish gear is livable and cruises at 23-2500RPM at highway speeds. But for a TPI motor it may be a little too much. I'd stay with 3.23-3.42 for a 300HP 3rd gen. Build it with enough torque to pull a mild gear and it will be a great combo.

 

So I found a calculator, punched in some numbers... Says a 3400 pound car, with 2.73 would 0-60 in about 5.5 seconds. It also told me I could cruise 70mph at 1800rpm in 5th gear. I understand that these are estimates and 90% full of crap. Doing some more research I looked at a spec sheet for the 2011 V6 Mustang. 305hp 280tq at 6500rpm, 3500 pounds, 2.73 gears, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds.

Now I get that the throttle response between a new car and a old q-jet are different worlds, aerodynamics and such are involved as well. But is it crazy to expect around a 6 second 0-60? I've been looking at quite a few cars that are considered "sport" that put down 0-60 in 5-7 seconds. Even some full size trucks are boasting 7's. From my understanding the stock TPI IROC would run about 7.5 0-60 with 195hp and 2??tq right?

So with a carbed 350 pushing mid 300's on hp/tq and 2.73, in my mind, accelerate promptly, and achieve amazing mpg on the highway right?

I get that 3.23 will come off the line quicker, and 3.55 even more so. The idea of going on a road trip though, cruisin the interstate at 1800 or so sounds beautiful. And I don't think a 5-7 second 0-60 is horrible. Most my "hard" accelerations would be passing another car. Downshift, open the secondaries and go. The idea of messing with the gearing does intimidate me. I don't want a car that breaks traction when you drop a gear and mash the throttle.

 

Well youll just have to do it and go from there. Everyone is different and everyone wants their cars to act differently.

 

My 92 with a 700r4 (.70 4th) & a 2.73 cruised right about 80 at 2000 RPM, so at least that part is solid.

 

3.42 with an auto, 3.73 with a manual. That simple. Nothing else. Either of those and you'll be happy as a lark. Just do it.

 

People opinions will vary like the wind. T/C stall will change rpm's. So what you have might not be the same as anyone else. This link is accurate,but does not account for the above.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/automotiveconverters.html

 

All depends wherer the torque curve is, gearing etc.

350-400rwhp can make for an interesting street car.

Have the never enough disease so Im ok with finicky high maintenance motors that are still loping at 40mph.

 

Agreed!

 

In the 18 years I've owned my 84 camaro it has evolved from a stock 305 daily driver to a street/strip beast with many different combinations in between. You always want to go faster once you get used to what you have. For me the sweet spot was the first 383SBC combo I built. It was around 400HP, 450ft/lbs torque, 3.73 gears. It would run low 12's and could be driven anywhere...had a lot of fun with that combo. If you go much more than that your car starts to become a race car requiring more maintenance, safety equipment etc...the expense goes up and fun factor down.

 

Fortunately I suppose... I shouldn't get too bored with the car. I drive a semi and am only home 4 days a month. So at best ill drive the car maybe 12 times a year. Also a benefit is everything seems fast when I get out of this thing. Funny part is its got 455hp 1700tq 3.73 rears with a ten speed. Takes well over a mile to hit 60mph. Governed speed tops at 65. Makes my explorer feel like a go kart.

 

Sounds like a cat engine.

 

Can you say GRUNT. Imagine if it'd turn @ 5500!

 

I totally agree with this, I went from 3:08's to 4:11's, loads of fun and still get 25mpg on the highway, Still i think 3:73's with a t5 would be the ultimate combination.

 

Well I don't know. The 5th gear in a T5 isn't much of an overdrive on the Interstate. With a 3.45 axle, it's turning about 2600rpm at 75mph. I would think a 3.73 would be too busy for travelling speed.

A T56 in a fourth gen however, with it's .5:1 6th gear and 3.42 axle, lopes along so slow that it would definitely benefit from a 3.73 or even a 4.11 gear.

The sweet spot for a car overall is different for everyone. Personally, I don't want any compromises in driveability or longevity, so mild upgrades suit me just fine. When I was younger I preferred rough running, noisy, fast cars.

 

I thought a T5's 5th was .75.

 

Our V8-spec T5s all have the 2.95:1 first. GM never combined that with a 2.73:1 axle. 3.08:1, yes, but not 2.73:1. Lowest possible cruise RPM isn't necessarily going to give best MPG with very many engine combinations. Just like there are undetectable degrees of detonation, there are undetectable degrees of lugging the engine, especially with really tall gearing. The '88-'92 LO3 / T5 used the 0.63:1 fifth with the 3.08:1 gearing, the net result is about the same as a 2.73:1 / 700R-4 combo, with the 0.70:1 OD. T5s used with the HO 305s, the L69 and LB9, had a 0.73:1 5th, as did all the '83 LG4s. Axles were 3.73 / 3.45 / 3.23, respectively. By '86, the LG4 / T% was using the 0.63:1 fifth with 3.23 axle. I re-hash this history to indicate what seems to appease most everyone. Stick with gearing in the accepted ranges for best results. Sweet spot: this is totally subjective, but there are plenty of us who can't ever be happy with an LG4, and I've yet to meet anyone who can't tolerate a mild 350. I've reached the age of gray hairs, and being happy with 200 HP at the crankshaft, so long as the torque is good. Say, 300, minimum. But a third gen should be able to leave any common 4-door car choking dust, and these days you need at least 250 HP to the rear tires to equal the best of them. Lastly, 250 HP with the right gearing can often beat 300 HP with the wrong gearing. With a mild 350 and a T5, use the 0.63:1 fifth with a 3.42:1 axle for an excellent balance of acceleration and cruising.

 

Lol I hear ya brother! The only noise I like nowadays is when I press the loud pedal!

I can't remember the exact OD for a T5 but I can tell you the TKO 600 has a deeper 5th gear. I never checked the RPM at speed but it was much lower after the T5 to TKO swap.

See you at BINGO!

 

t5 5'th is 0.74, im only turning 2400-2500 at 70mph if even that, not too exessive or noisy even in a convertible.

 

Well written and very informative. The sweet spot is truly subjective.

I need to do a little investigation on the specs of my TKO 600. It seems to have a lower numerially (higher ratio) 1st and OD than the T5 I took out. Lower RPM for each. (the T5 came out of an 89 Camaro V8) Although the OD gear (.6ish I believe) and 3.70 gear aren't too bad on the highwey with a 75MPH/2400RPM cruise I believe the rear is too low for my combo and street driving style. 1st gear is almost usless and I end up in 4th at about 45 and OD at 55. It will pull OD at about 35-40MPH with no problem. Basically the only thing the low rear gear does is put me in a higher trans gear sooner. I have been seriously considering putting the 3.27 back in just for this reason. I would prefer a 3.45 (9 bolt) but they are kinda hard to come by or pricy. I share all this to go along with your point about how HP/gearing needs to be matched. I am basically wasteing the torque this motor produces by whizzing past the torque in each gear. I put the lower gear in the rear a few years ago when I had drag racing stars in my eyes but it only picked up a couple of tenth at that time. Better to make a torquey motor and gear it to best take advantage of it. Peak HP numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

I apprrciate the feedback. Most people I talked to are recomending 3.55 or 3.73. I know the "sweet spot" is very subjective. If it were universal wed all have the same car. By getting multiple decriptions tho its easier to set my target. I posted a thread on some engine specs but haven't had a reply. I'd like to make peak torque in the low to mid 3,000 rpm range. Even with a low rpm power band it seems I will probably have to switch to about 3.23.

 

A couple programs I've found helpful are desktop drag & desktop dyno. You can experiment with different cams/heads in the dyno program if they're either included in the program (there are a lot that are) or if you know the specs, then you can transfer the engine you've "built" over to the drag program & experiment with different car setups.

 

TKO600 is 2.87 / 1.89 / 1.28 / 1.00 / 0.64. But it's also $2500+, twice the cost of an equally-strong used T56. T5 with 3.73:1 was factory with the L69, but 2 owners have told me they liked it better after swapping to 3.42:1. I don't believe for a second that a 3.45:1 from '85-'89 is the least bit stronger than a 3.42:1 from '91-up. Not in the real world. Maybe at the track, but I never compete anymore. A 350 / T5, 0.63 / 3.23:1 combo should give no less than 27 MPG at 65 MPH, IF the cam is mild enough. This would be extremely satisfying to drive under all conditions, if you get it tuned well enough. Or just buy a new RamJet 350 crate engine with the closed-loop option. I'd fully expect 28 MPG from that combo in my T/A. I wouldn't try any "LT1" cam in that combo, unless I had the 0.73:1 fifth. And it is 0.728030303:1, so nobody try calling it 0.74:1 ever again. That's fifth in the '94-'02 T56, NOT ANY T5.