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Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

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Old Jan 19, 2014 | 09:13 PM
  #1  
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Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

This is my fault. I over torqued the bolt and broke the casting. Can I get a opinion on some of the experts on this site for a fix or maybe an alternative setup. I have quite a bit of time and money already invested in the block. Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-broken_1.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-broken_2.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-broken_4.jpg  
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 03:46 PM
  #2  
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From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
Aftermarket link roller lifters, or flat tappet lifters.

You might be able to find someone to weld it up, machine it flat, drill & tap it, but that will likely cost a bundle by itself.
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 04:06 PM
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Now that really sucks a big one. How much torque is required on this bolt? I have had some luck with brazing the cast iron.
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 04:29 PM
  #4  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

I don't recall if these had torque specs. I bought the spider plate online with bolts and didn't realize I needed washers. You can guess the rest. I've been looking at you tube and there is a guy that stick welds repairs like this using what he calls nickel-99. He cuts a channel at the damage (I guess I'll be using a Dremmel) and welds about a quarter of an inch at a time. He lets the Iron cool in-between. My welding skills are, well to be honest, horrible, but I'm going over to the supply house tomorrow to find out if they have this product or something similar and give it a shot. If not, I gather that I can use the linked style lifters?? I appreciate the support.
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 04:33 PM
  #5  
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From: Littleton, CO USA
Car: 82 Berlinetta/57 Bel Air
Engine: L92/LQ4 (both w/4" stroke)
Transmission: 4L80E/4L80E
Axle/Gears: 12B-3.73/9"-3.89
The brazing option might be better than welding.

Regardless, the real issues will be putting the two pieces together and holding them so they don't shift during welding/brazing, and keeping splatter out of/away from the rest of the engine.

Failing that, yes, you can use retrofit roller lifters.
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 06:29 PM
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Car: 87 iroc-z
Engine: 454
Transmission: th350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

a good welder should be able to fix that. brazing is a good option.

i'd hold the broken ear on there, screw the bolt in, and tig weld it. i've had great results over the years with cast iron using stainless filler rod. then i wave the torch back over it a few times to slow cool it.

its definetly repairable.
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 08:00 PM
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

I only have a oxy/accetaline, arc and a mig but not tig. Not really very good at any of them. I'm thinking It might be in my best interest to go ahead and load the block up and take it to a shop. Does anyone have a rough guess on what this might cost me.???
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Old Jan 20, 2014 | 08:35 PM
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

So if you bolt everything up... the spider isnt sturdy enough to hold itself in place with the two remaining bolts? I've never actually messed with one and I'd probably just replace the block... BUT... I'd at least bolt it all up in place and see how study it is with the other two bolts snugged. All they really do just keep the lifters from rotating so maybe two is sufficient? What is the spider made of? Can you weld some reinforcing braces on it perhaps?
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Old Jan 21, 2014 | 07:02 AM
  #9  
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From: Spring Hill, Fl.
Car: 87 iroc-z
Engine: 454
Transmission: th350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Originally Posted by glangfor
I only have a oxy/accetaline, arc and a mig but not tig. Not really very good at any of them. I'm thinking It might be in my best interest to go ahead and load the block up and take it to a shop. Does anyone have a rough guess on what this might cost me.???

rough guess,...$60-80? especially if you can bring the block there and have it clean. probably best to let a pro handle it. i'd tape off some aluminum foil all around the lifter valley so theres no chance of dropping anything in the motor. the better you can get it prepped for welding, the cheaper its gonna be.
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Old Jan 21, 2014 | 10:30 AM
  #10  
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Axle/Gears: 3.42, hand made 40 spline 9"
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Maybe that JB Weld putty? I've hear of guys using that with great results.

Otherwise, have it welded.
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Old Jan 21, 2014 | 10:34 AM
  #11  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

My friend did something similar. He got a local welding shop to fix it for about $100. They used a MIG to put it back together and retapped the hole. Been fine for years.
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Old Jan 25, 2014 | 05:42 PM
  #12  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Well I just made the repair. I did all of this before reading the last few post. I really appreciate the help. Please feel free to comment on the repair. I assure you, I won't be offended. Thanks again.
Attached Thumbnails Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-1.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-3.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-6.jpg  
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Old Jan 26, 2014 | 01:51 PM
  #13  
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From: Spring Hill, Fl.
Car: 87 iroc-z
Engine: 454
Transmission: th350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

looks good from here.
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Old Jan 26, 2014 | 04:16 PM
  #14  
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Transmission: TH350-4l60e
Axle/Gears: 373 posi-Stock
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Looks like that will work.
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Old Jan 30, 2014 | 08:27 AM
  #15  
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Axle/Gears: 3.42, hand made 40 spline 9"
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

How did you do the repair? So others may know if this situation should arise in the future.
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Old Jan 30, 2014 | 09:31 AM
  #16  
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Car: 87 IROC Z28
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Axle/Gears: QP fab 9" 3.70 Truetrac
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Spider bolt torque is 10-14 ftlbs. No washers. The factory bolts(5/16X18 IIRC) are flanged head and don't get a washer.
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Old Jan 31, 2014 | 02:26 PM
  #17  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

No problem I'll get busy and post the rest of the pics I took. The repair was really easy.
My question now is about the bolts. As stated earlier, I purchased the plate and bolts online. The bolts didn't tighten the retainer all the way and it was kind of loose and a bit sloppy. So my question is that normal?, or maybe the bolts are a little long for the retainer.
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Old Jan 31, 2014 | 02:54 PM
  #18  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

I know this post is getting old, but here is my repair pics for those that are interested.

Pic 1- Cleaned both parts with a wire brush dremmel. Clamped together with standard vise grips and placed the bolt.

Pic 2 - cut a channel around the crack with a small carbide ball attatchment on the rotary tool.

Pic 3 Ordered Nickel-99 3/32 rods (5 total) off of Ebay for 9.99 and stick welded around 1/4 to 3/8" at a time. I know it looks crappy, but that's the best I could do.
Attached Thumbnails Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-0.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-1.jpg   Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-5.jpg  
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Old Jan 31, 2014 | 03:00 PM
  #19  
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Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

Removed the bolt and touched up the repair with a 4" grinder.
Checked all the areas for welding splatter and cleaned.

That's it. Nothing really hard about the entire process. Even easier when you can get some sound advice like what I received here.
Attached Thumbnails Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken-fixed-4.jpg  
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Old Jan 31, 2014 | 04:16 PM
  #20  
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From: Spring Hill, Fl.
Car: 87 iroc-z
Engine: 454
Transmission: th350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Spider Retainer Bolt Casting is broken

maybe you can use a stud or cut a piece of all-thread instead of the bolt?

in your first few pics you showed the motor somewhat assembled. i'd be concerned about the grinding dust and metal, and also the welding slag getting in the motor. should of covered every thing with aluminum foil, wet rags, whatever. oh well, hind sight is 20/20. make sure you clean everything real good.

again, nice repair!
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