nakota2k

1. Is there anything here I wasn't suppose to remove?



2. What is this and can I remove it?



3. What is this and can I remove it? The hose goes to the block, would I have to blank it off?



4. What do I do with all the wiring that went to these components?

92RS shearn

By AC did you intend to remove heating as well?
From the top picture, I can't tell for sure but did you remove the tensioner pulley?

nakota2k

I removed 2 pulleys, the A/C one and the one below it. As well as the housing holding the two. My heater core was bypassed a few years back.

Base91

iTrader: (1)

You need to retain whatever pulleys are needed for your belts to still work and make the remaining components turn in their original direction. 2 is the charcoal canister. There are threads on why you should/shouldn't remove it. It's part of the smog system so depending on where you live and if you need to have the car inspected you may not be able to remove it. You don't really gain anything by removing it. 3 is the heater control valve. Anything to do with the heater can be removed. Just follow the hoses and make sure the coolant gets to where it needs to get to. As for the wiring you can take the loom apart and remove the wires or cut them or just tie them out of the way. Depends on what your overall plan is.

nakota2k

Thank you. Can I just get a shorter belt instead of putting the pulleys back in? Do I need to block off where the hose from the charcoal canister goes into the block? What do you mean follow the hoses and make sure the coolant gets where it needs to be? If my heater core is bypassed isn't there no coolant there?

nakota2k

I see now I probably won't be able to delete both without putting at least one delete pully. Maybe an a/c delete pully and just drop the smog all together..

TheExaminer

If your car is like mine, the bottom hose on the hcv goes to the "in" pipe on the heater core. The top hose is a diverter hose that diverts coolant toward the oil cooler when you select cool on the temperature slider at the controller. The controller sends a vacuum to the hcv, opening a little valve that causes most of the coolant to go straight across from the tb down toward the oil cooler. Therefore, when ac is on, there is just a trickle of hot coolant in the heater core and the ac can work better. You can see the little vacuum port at the top of the hcv valve that does this, and if you put a vacuum to it with the hoses off, you can see the little valve work. The "out" pipe on the heater core goes to a T that goes to the oil cooler as well as collecting coolant from above that was diverted by the hcv. (The 90 degree top hose that goes downward from the hcv) This is what the previous poster meant. If you delete the hcv, not only will you never have heat (unless you run a line straight to the heater core, in which case you will ALWAYS have heat...) you will need to make sure the coolant makes a complete circuit to where it needs to be: tb, oil cooler, radiator, intake, ect. With everything you've taken off, it can't do that without some hose rerouting. Do you want to delete your heat too? I hope you live in AZ!

nakota2k

I actually do live in AZ. My heater core was bypassed awhile back so I guess I still need to re-rout that bottom hose off the hcv.. Where would you suggest I plug that line into to make a complete circuit? The easiest way

TheExaminer

Well, you could go straight from the tb down to the T where the top hose connected to the heater core out pipe/oil cooler. I think the tb hose and the hcv top hose are the same size--I think. It would just be a matter of getting a preformed 90 degree 5/8" hose that is a little longer than the one on the hcv in the top end. The one there MIGHT reach the tb on its own if you stretch it over, I'm not sure, it's something you can check. The angle may be wrong, you might need to clamp the diverter hose and tb hose to an elbow. But I'd go ahead and replace all the hoses now while you've got it apart. If they're older, the seal won't be the same after you've broken it. I just had to do that to mine this fall. New hcv, new hoses, etc. cuz I live in IN and need heat! But, you might get some more opinions from other guys on here. I THINK what I've said here would work if you want to totally bypass the htc. But I'm not as expert as others, they might have smarter ideas......

TheExaminer

Btw, if you want no coolant in your heater core at all, and if you delete it totally, you will need to cap off the end of the T where the OUT pipe from the htc runs into the diverter hose from the hcv and oil cooler. (I'm assuming you have an oil cooler, some cars don't) That way it would come straight down from the tb to the oil cooler line. The bottom hcv hose (htc line IN) will be moot because the entire valve will be gone and noting will be going IN the htc. Clear as mud? LOL

TheExaminer

Here's a pic of my motor. See how that top hose bends down toward the bottom of the motor? Oil cooler line and T from the htc is down there along the wheel well. I guess technically there are two 90 bends in it.....

nakota2k

I really appreciate you writing all that out but I'm still confused. This is what my HCV looks like right now. Can I just delete this thing and rout the hose somewhere else? Not sure if I have an oil cooler...
89' Iroc-Z 350

TheExaminer

Look under your motor. If you have an oil cooler, there will be a couple hoses/aluminum lines running around the front under the crank pulley into a bracket that your oil filter is screwed to. It goes in one side, then back out the other so there would be two parallel lines. IDK the differences in years and Firebird/Camaro, but the general idea is the same. You have three hoses hooked to your hcv, right? The short one in your pic connects to the tb, the one you have blocked off went to the htc, and the upper one directly across from the tb hose is the one that allows coolant to be diverted when AC is selected. The coolant comes into the hcv from the tb, then goes DOWNWARD to the bottom hose into the htc when heat is selected. When you select cool, a valve opens at the top hose and diverts it. You already have your bottom hose blocked off I see, that's from were you bypassed it? So then no coolant is going INTO the htc. What did you do with the OTHER htc line, the one that comes OUT of the htc? Whether you have an oil cooler or not, that line coming out of the htc had to go somewhere! I imagine you need to connect the line coming out of the tb to whatever that htc line out was connected to. On mine it comes out of the htc down the firewall, then over toward the passengers side wheel well into a 3 way T that goes to the oil cooler and also accepts the coolant divertd from the hcv when AC is used. I don't know without looking at your motor, but to delete the hcv, that's probably what you'd have to do. Find out where the out line went, block coolant from going back toward the htc and come down from the tb. But like I said, without looking at it its harder for me to tell,,and maybe someone else knows an easier way.

nakota2k

The hose from the heater core comes out of the fire wall and is just cut off and laying there on the valve cover. It's basically a dead line the mechanic told me since no coolant is going through it. Can I just take the hose that comes out of the block and instead of attaching to the top of the HCV like in the pic, I can attach to the tb?

TheExaminer

Hmm, let me think. Check to see if you have an oil cooler. It looks like this. If you do, there would be a T, and that's where you could tie in. Where did that upper hose on the hcv connect before you took it apart? If your htc out hose is laying there "dead" and you have an oil cooler, he also blocked it off at the T. Otherwise coolant would flow right out onto your manifold! If it's laying there and you don't have an oil cooler, it'll take more thought..... Your idea of connecting the one from the block to the tb might work, just very difficult to tell without actually seeing the setup, esp since you have an IROC and I have a Formula!

nakota2k

Ok so I was wrong it doesnt go to the block but the oil cooler through a metal pipe under the pulleys. So do I leave it in the oil cooler then pull the end that is attached to the top of the hcv and put it somewhere else?

TheExaminer

Ok, now we're talking! If you follow those oil cooler lines, you'll find they split on the front passenger side of the motor. One goes to the top of the radiator right under the cap, the other to the infamous T that connected to the htc out line. The bottom of the T (it's an "inverted" T) connects the OUT line from the HTC to the oil cooler line. The part that points upward is where that top hose from the hcv should have been connected. This is where coolant was diverted when you select AC at the controller. So you'd need to run from the tb into the top of that T, and make sure the part of the T pointed toward the htc is blocked off, and it probably already is if your out line is laying there "dead". Like I said, maybe someone smarter than me knows an easier way, but that's how I'd do it.....

nakota2k

The the one I have circled I can pull off and attach to the tb?



Also what's the bottom inlet for below the one I circled. (I really should have payed more attention taking everything apart...)
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TheExaminer

Yeah, that should work. I see the confusion now. Either you or your mechanic took the T out and replaced it with a coupler when you bypassed the htc, which was a good idea. But yeah, that is connected to the oil cooler! See where they split there? That coupler is where the T used to be, so it looks like you're on track with that idea. I'm a bit of a novice myself, it's just that I just got done messing with all this on my car last month tracking down some coolant leaks. Hope this works out! Keep an eye out for supreme members with better ideas, but I think that should work....

nakota2k

Awesome man, you have been very helpful, thank you. Any idea what that second inlet is on the throttle body below the one I circled?

TheExaminer

Pretty sure that's a vacuum line that connects to the evap canister you pictured at the beginning of this thread. It pulls fuel vapor out of the evap and blends it with the air mixture to burn it off.

nakota2k

Ok cool, so I can just cap that?

TheExaminer

I don't see why not if you've pulled the canister out.....

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Your aftermarket TB does NOT have the coolant passages (cold weather anti-icing), so your heater lines will NOT go to the TB. However, the hose marked with the red circle can/should be attached to a port/fitting at the front of the intake manifold. This will supply coolant to the oil cooler, which returns to the radiator.

As for the TB vacuum lines: Top goes to the valve cover for PCV, bottom goes to the charcoal vapor can.

Thanks to vettemod.com for the image.

TheExaminer

Ok, so the after market tb's have different plumbing. I still use my stock tb. This is why I wasn't 100% sure about what I told him, and advised him to keep an eye open for something else. His tb looks just a little different than my stock one, and now that I think about it I remember mine has three fittings, not just two. And yes, he needs to make sure he connects the ccv line, even if he plugs the evap line. He's running an 89, mine is a 92--so no doubt there are differences that I'm not sure about. Thx for adding this in!

nakota2k

Thanks for the input, so I can just camp the bottom port on the TB? Is there already a port on the front of the intake I can put that line into? I cant remember off the top of my head. Also what would you think would be better for the gas line that went to the canister. Cap it off and use a vented gas cap or just put a filter on the end?

TheExaminer

Mine has a little U shaped hose that connects tb to the intake, but I'm not sure how you'd tie into that. I don't have it in front of me, but if there's no coolant flow in your new tb, then the top of the U shaped hose wouldn't have any place to connect. I think it connects the bottom of the tb to the intake. If so, then you can run your line we talked about last night to that port at the front of the intake right below the tb. It's near the cts sensor (brass looking thingy screwed into the intake with a wire connector...) on the front of the intake. If I was using my brain last night, I'd have thought of that. LOL.... But go look at your intake, you should see it. But then, mine is a 92, there may be slight differences.

TheExaminer

I think this is it.... See the hose fitting at the bottom of the tb on the right? This is stock I think. The U shaped hose connects to the other hose fitting there near the middle of the front of the intake. That's probably what Mojoe was talking about. If your new tb doesn't have that bottom hose fitting, then connect your heater line to this intake port. You may possibly end up needing a different shaped or longer hose.

TheExaminer

Here's a pic I just found showing someone else who did what you're trying to do. Looks like they just connected the hose to the intake and routed it down behind the pulleys. Dang it, man, I wish my motor looked this clean and dressed up!

nakota2k

So it looks like my tb doesnt have the coolant part. Can I still hook it up and run the hose that went into the top of the HCV into that side port and then the front port to the intake base?



Also you see where the hose goes into a brass fitting and then into the intake base? Is that just a fitting or some kind of sensor? The edelbrock intake I ordered doesnt have that fitting, just a hole.

TheExaminer

I'm not sure, might want to grab one of the supreme members on this. LOL Does that old coolant fitting screw to the bottom of the new tb? This is the part I don't know because I've never installed a new tb. It looks like there are openings on the bottom of that new tb that match the coolant fittings! If not, you would run your heater line into the port in the intake where the U shaped hose was (the corresponding port in your new one). I think the new intakes don't always have the extra hardware like hose fittings and sensors, you have to install those. There should be a threaded hole where you'd screw your hose fitting in? I would think you'd unscrew it, clean it up and screw it into your new intake, then run your heater hose into it like that second pic I posted a few minutes ago. The coolant temp sensor may screw in the new intake too, it depends on what sensors work with the new intake, and what the setup is. It should screw in below the hose fitting, and there is an electrical connector for it on your engine wiring harness. Mine only has one sensor there, but some intakes have two. Bigger experts than me would know more about that. But looks like to me the setup in the second pic I posted above does not appear to have have any coolant lines going in or out of the tb. I don't know why this is, that's beyond my limited scope. LOL If that's the case, put your hose fitting in your new intake and connect the heater hose to it as pictured in my post above.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

@nakota2k
Picture #1 shows the aftermarket throttle body and the factory Idle-Air-Control (IAC) housing / TB coolant manifold. You MUST install the IAC/coolant housing onto the TB... a) because you'd have a BIG vacuum leak, b) the computer would not be able to control the engine idle speed, etc.
- The port pointing at the "d's" on the book is where the U shaped hose from picture #2 connects.
- The port pointing to the left in the picture goes to the Heater Control Valve,
- This is frequently bypassed so keep the TB cooler, with the intet of not heating the intake nor air, to aid performance.
- heater hose runs from the HCV to the heater core and to a T on the metal pipe on the passenger frame rail.
- The metal pipe connect to the oil cooler supply side. (Or straight to the radiator for non-oil-cooler cars).

Picture #2.
- yes the brass piece is "just a fitting". Either 3/8" NPT or 1/2" NPT on the manifold side to allow a 5/8" or 3/4" heater hose to attach.
- The Edelbrock intake manifold you ordered is "missing" a lot of things. These are intended to be swapped over from your old manifold.
For instance, the U hose, and its brass fitting should be unscrewed from the old manifold, and screwed into the new manifold with teflon tape (to aid sealing the brass fitting into the manifold).

You can route a heater hose direct for the intake manifold fitting in #2, skipping the TB and HCV, and going straight to the rear most hose/pipe for the oil cooler.

nakota2k

Yea that looks real nice. Do they make a IAC housing without that coolant section. I can't seem to find any. If I run it straight to the intake like that pic then those two ports on the IAC housing will just be open. Also how did this guy do a maf delete like that? I would love to have the air filter right there

nakota2k

This is what I need, I just can't find it anywhere.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Here are some pictures:
1) aftermarket 58mm TB with factory IAC/coolant housing installed along with IAC and TPS.
2) stock coolant passage cut off IAC housing to provide JUST IAC without the coolant ports sticking out.
3) Aftermarket IAC-only housing, with no TB coolant passage.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Here is a Scoggins Dickey Vortec TPI manifold. Notice all of the empty holes for you to swap over the Coolant Temp Sensor, ColdStart/9th injector timer (if so equipped), and the TB/Heater core/oil cooler coolant outlet.

nakota2k

So you're saying I should keep the stock IAC housing. Use the front port and the U to connect to the intake and the side port connect the hose that used to go to the top of the HCV?

nakota2k

In your opinion would you keep the stock IAC housing or use that smaller one without the coolant passage?

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

What can't you find? The die grinder, pliers, or sheet of plywood? You already have the part(s) in the picture. You just haven't cut it apart yet.

That part would be found on your stock throttle body, and needs to be transferred to the new TB.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

The stock IAC housing is free and you can modify it for free.

Or spend $75 for TPIS billet bling that no one can see.

TheExaminer

Thanks! This answered a lot of my questions too. I've never done the swap, so I was making guesses, some good some not as good! LOL But what's the reason you can't just screw the old coolant fitting in the new tb without cutting out the IAC housing and run it like stock?

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

That is the factory coolant routing.

Bypassing this may or may not have any real world performance improvement.

If you want to bypass the TB coolant and/or have simpler hose routing...
a) leave the IAC/coolant housing as-is, and just don't connect a heater hose to either side.
b) cut the coolant passage off, so you have just the IAC housing.
c) or, buy the aftermarket, billet, IAC-only part.
Choose EITHER a,b, OR c, AND run a heater line from the brass fitting in the intake manifold to your HCV (if you are keeping it), or your heater core (if you have it, and want heat in the car), or to the oil cooler, or to the radiator, or replace the hose fitting with a plug if you don't want the hose at all.

TheExaminer

Yeah this makes sense. I never quite understood why the engineers ran coolant under the tb. Seems like it would unnecessarily heat the air headed into the plenum. This thread has actually been pretty helpful. Between my own snooping and your input I've learned a lot here. Thx.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

At idle / part throttle driving, the air going past the throttle blades go from high pressure (atmospheric) to vacuum (intake), where the laws of chemistry take over and say the air temperature will go DOWN.
Add cold ambient temperature and high humidity, this reduction in air temperature can freeze the moisture in the air, causing icing on the throttle blades.
Running coolant "through" the TB (along the bottom surface) adds enough heat to eliminate the icing.

I don't know what actual performance gains are achieved by bypassing the coolant from the TB. But, the little bits add up, and soon you're talking real power.

TheExaminer

Ok, makes sense now! It's also why you see a "fog" in the air when something depressurizes, like a coke bottle or airplane cabin.... So then why not leave it stock and attach the setup to the new tb? BTW....Does adding the intake air foil really make much difference in performance? I read some say it does, and some it doesn't.

nakota2k

Can you link me to one of those after market billet IAC only housings please? Can't seem to find any. So Im going to just connect the line that went to the top of my HCV (which I deleted) and instead take it right to the intake. I've learned so much in this thread as well.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

If you don't drive your car in freezing and humid conditions, you will not experience TB icing. Therefore, you can get the +1hp via bypassing.

Air foil - I've seen claims of extra hp, and claims of snake oil. YMMV, do what makes you happy.

MoJoe

iTrader: (5)

Here is the link from post #40... TPIS billet bling

That sounds correct.

Good to hear it!

TheExaminer

He probably never had maf. My 92 doesn't, it's map only. I have a K&N in this same position. It varies from year to year. Some cars earlier than mine had maf, and some after have it again. I'm not sure what the engineers' logic is about why and when they do it.