Hello everyone, I'm having problems with my 1989 Firebird 305 TBI
Recently when i go to turn the key, nothing happens, not even a click.
Lights come on that's about it.
The first time this happened messing around with the positive wire seemed to make it work (but i believe this was a fluke because this method no longer works)
I've tried to jump the solenoid, starter will turn over the car but it will not start.
Tried jump starting with no luck
Terminals are tight
Tried starting car in neutral (no good)
I'm thinking this is an ignition problem or a VATS issue which i know very little about.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've bin trying to figure this out the last few days.

 

Check the Fusible link coming off the Positive side of the Battery,it's on the smaller wire at the terminal

 

The wire that my hand on is the smaller wire coming from the terminal, the other two smaller ones below look like Fusible links but i'm not positive on that and they're not coming from the terminal?

 

Is the security light on?

 

Don't mean to sound dumb, but i actually don't know what the security light looks like. But the only lights i noticed were the seatbelt light which goes out after a few seconds, and the check engine light

 

If you don't see it on the Gauge cluster then its prolly not on. It will light up if its a vats issue. When that light comes on it will not do ne thing. it shuts down starter injectors ect... You can jump it over but it will not run until the vats issue is takin care of.

 

Yeah not seeing a security light, if i taped over the resistor contacts on the key, would the security light come on? Would it not come on if something is wrong?

Could it be the Starter enabler relay? If so is there a way to diagnose this?

 

I had the same problem it was the wires connected to the ignition tumbler in the column. The security light wouldnt come on and I jumped the starter to try and start it but the injectors wouldnt fire.

 

It could be your NSS (neutral safety switch), fuseable links on starter wires, The small starter wire, bad ignition cylinder/lock or wires going to it

 

Thank you for your input, Is there ways of diagnosing all or some of these so i can narrow it down?

 

are the two smaller wires with the black boxes on them in the photo above fuseable links?

 

I found a multimeter lastnight. On the starter end of the positive wire there is over 12 volts. If I get someone to turn the key over while I test the smaller wire, would that eliminate it from the list of things it could be if there is power there too?

 

You can try and jumper the starter relay behind the drivers side kick panel. Might not fix the problem, but at least you could rule that out as a problem if you bypass it.

 

Okay, how do I do that?

 

On cars with VATS there is a relay behind the drivers side kick panel. You know the panel to the left of your left foot when you are sitting in the car? Take that off and there should be some kind of sticky black tar like substance covering a hole. If you peel that back you should see the VATS starter relay in there. Unplug the relay and jumper the two larger gauge wires together with a piece of scrap wire. I think there are 4 wires if memory serves me correctly. And I think the two power wires that you want to jumper are on the ends of the 4 blade connector. So if you look at it like 1234 you want to connect 1 and 4 together. Then just try and crank it. If it starts then there is a good chance that the relay is junk. You can actually just leave the jumper in there if you don't care about VATS.

 

Look at post #63 in under this topic. It shows a picture of the relay bypass.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...rs-wont-2.html

 

[QUOTE=greenyone;5931741]Look at post #63 in under this topic. It shows a picture of the relay bypass.

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...rs-wont-2.html[/QUOTEf]

Okay thanks! I'm goimg to try and get to the ignition wires to see if any have came lose, I will also try this today and post back with results

Thanks for the advice!

 

Is it true that cars suffering from a VATS problem will have the security light on in the dash? Because mine doesn't. I tried taping over the resistor on the key and put it back in, just to see if the light would come on but even then the security light wouldn't come on.

 

This is what im looking at, not sure where to go from here

 

Just noticed that the seatbelt light come on breifly when I turn the key on, does this mean anything?

 

Not sure. I had VATS burned out of my ecu prom so long ago I can't even remember what kind of light or lights it may have used.

 

They relay is behind the drivers side the kick panel, not directly under the dash. There is supposed to be a gooey sheet of a sticky tar like substance covering a hole in the area underneath the hood release. Keep in mind these cars are old and have been tinkered with a lot over the years, so the sticky sheet could be gone already. But either way, there should be a hole behind the kick panel under the hood release.

 

 

Okay thankyou I found it! I unplugged it and turned key on. Still no security light, so im guessing its burnt out! Maybe this is a VATS problem

 

Run a jumper wire with that relay removed. See if the car starts.

 

I recently had a similar experience as yours in my 92 Camaro. It turned out to be vats I fixed this by getting it programmed out all together.

From what I recall the security light not being on means you have a problem. When you first turn the key to the on position the SECURITY light should flash once. That indicates everything is good. If not you may have a problem. Or the bulb could be burned out.

Check out this video here.


Its pretty informative and might help you solve your problem

Good Luck Hope this helps.

 

Okay so i made a jumper out of scrap wire and bypassed the VATS, the car then turned over but wouldn't fire.

Safe to say VATS is the problem?

Where do i go from here?

 

Thankyou for your input, for some reason the video will not work. How do i get it programmed out?

 

Go to youtube and google HOW TO BYPASS GM VATS that should bring it up.

To get it programmed out you would need someone to burn you a chip.

You can send a PM to a member called Tuned performance. He does it for a good price, I got mine done by someone locally he charged me a little more but he did a couple other things besides the VATS.

The reason it wont start is because VATS disables your injectors as well as the starter. A good way to be 100% sure is to get a NOID light at your local auto parts and hook it up to and injector wire. If the light flashes than its not VATS because they are firing.

 

I live in a small town, are mechanics shops or gm dealership able to do this burning? The car ran prior to this problem so i dont think the NOID test is necessary. I think it's safe to say its VATS.

Thank you!

 

Its possible that you might find a mechanic that can do it for you but you never know with these kinds of things if they dont know what they are doing you could come out with more problems. I dont think the dealer ship can do it.

Your best bet would be to get in contact with TunedPerforomance he can mail the chip to you and give you step by step instruction on how to install it correctly.

 

Okay! how do i find him?

 

So the video proved if he would just replace his ignition switch and key he would of fixed the problem. The wires he cut and added the resistors came from his ignition. So if the OP is having the same problem replace the ignition switch and a new key and be running again and still be oem.

 

No, the "chip" in the key is actually a resistor. The resistance of that key has to match the value stored in the computer. So just changing out the ignition switch will not fix the problem. There really are only 3 options. Get a bypass module, find out the keys resistance and solder in a resistor to fool the car, or just eliminate all through a re-flash on the prom chip. I had the same issues with my car at one point in time. Jumpering the relay and soldering in the resistor worked for me as a temporary fix. Then I rebuilt my engine and needed a new tune so I just had it programmed out. Eliminating VATS also gives you the ability to go to any home store and get new keys cut without having to order a specialty key.

Personally I could care less about a 20+ year old factory security system. I don't leave this car unattended for any lengthy period of time to even worry about it getting stolen. And if I do, I do the same thing that I do with my 60's cars. Pop the hood and take the coil wire with me.

 

Brian Harris at Harris Performance did my chip. Just another option other than Tuned Performance. I'm sure they are both equally good.

http://tpichips.com/

 

I soldered a resistor the exact same resistance in mine it worked for years before I sold the 92z28 I had. The vats is a nuisance with these cars. Some Times for no reason at all the vats jus messes up.

 

I found out the resistance of my key with a multimeter. If I get a new ignition switch and a new key with the same
VATS # Resistor. Would that not work? Resistance would stay the same

 

 

Yes. That could work if the VATS module is not the problem. The resistor hack is probably the easiest and without a doubt cheapest way to find out. $4.45 on amazon. Or find a Radio Shack that hasn't closed it's doors yet if you don't want to wait for the delivery truck.

 

Yes thats what I was saying in my post. If the vats module is out doing what the guy did in the video wouldnt work either he only bypassed the chip in the key

 

The VATS Module itself can go bad.


Take a look at this link = https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/elec...ing-tuned.html

 

okay thanks, I'm going to try the new ignition switch tomorrow, if that doesn't work, i will be getting a chip Burned