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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
Hey everyone so i bought a new bird 87 tpi i thought the motor was a 5.7 350ci untill recently have done tons of work and ordered parts did entire tpi ecm delete switching to carb wanted to build 383 with this block. Typical casting number 3970010 and that could be the 305 327 or 350 the suffix code is V0199800 which doesnt make any sense from what ive been able to find online. Its a 2 piece rear main seal 4 bolt main and then has 3932442 crank which was for a 350 yet cylinder heads casting number is 14102187 which is a 305 head. I dont think its original motor but im unsure just need to know if its 350 or not any help is appreciated this is my first engine build by myself. All thats left is to do engine and exhaust then final paint job more pics can be found on my profile any help is appreciated.
According to Mortec, the 3970010 castng number was used for 302, 327 and 350 c.i. engines of the late sixties and seventies era. The 305 was a different casting number. So, with the 3.48 in. stroke and the 4.00 std. bore of the 010 block, that would be a 350. Don't be confused by the 187 heads, those were never original on a 010 block (2prms and center bolt heads). HTH!
That helps alot thank you. I couldnt find anything on it and based off suffix code Based on what I saw on other sites, I am guessing
V0199800
translates to
V = Flint
01 = Month of assembly (January)
9 = Year of assembly (1979)
9800 = portion of a GM crate motor part number
I didnt want to have to buy a new block even though depending on machine cost of this one it might be cheaper to order the one from summit. Thanks again.
Take a picture of the suffix code. Chances are it's just a factory replacement engine and was never an originally installed engine.
It's common for someone to put heads off a 305 onto a 350 block. They think it will make more power from smaller combustion chambers but they also have smaller valves and smaller runners so it chokes the larger engine. The larger valves more commonly used for a 350+ engine won't fit into a 305's bore.
If you do have an 010 block then it's just another typical 4" bore block but if it's been rebuilt, it may already be bored over. Trying to make it into a 383 means the 383's pistons may be sloppy in an already overbored/worn engine. A 383 is a 4.030" bore and it's best to bore the engine to match new pistons.
So would it be better just to buy a new block? I havnt pulled the heads yet so im not sure of bore size but i can pull them right now shouldnt take to long its just reverse order.
You'll have to pull a head and measure the bore first.
You could put a stroker crank/rods into it and bore it out to 0.040 or 0.060" over but don't forget, machine shop time to properly build an engine isn't cheap. You can be much better off just buying a 383 longblock that has all the proper machine work already completed and will probably cost you less by the time it gets into the car.
Its only 700 for the block so vs the 500 they wanted at machine shop id rather spend a little more and have new. Any recommendations being that this is my first build? Granted pulled engine and trans by myself no problem this first time along with tpi to carb conversion. My biggest fear is not knowing how to time or set balancer correctly so im gonna brush up on that. Im only looking for about 400hp 450tq normally i just buy built but i rather build. I have no issue fixing most things just internals and timing im stumped.
It'll make a 383 same as any other 70s 350 block; assuming of course, that it isn't already bored out so far that it can't go farther, and then is wore out to where it can't be used without boring.
But $700 is too much for a block.
The heads are GARBAGE of the lowest order. I've paid people to haul off heads that are better than those. IOW, heads like that have NEGATIVE value, to me: I won't accept them for free, and if I can't avoid them, I'll pay somebody to come clean up the mess FOR ME. But that's just me. Rest assured though, 200 HP is a stretch with those, let alone 400. Throw them in the trash and start over.
The crank that's in the block, the rods, and the pistons, don't matter if you want to make it a 383. All that stuff has to be replaced.
$700 is too much for a block.
You can't put a carb on that if you live in SD and want to license it so you can drive it on the street. Not a good premise to start out your build with.
I'm thinking you might want to re-think. Maybe buying a motor ready to put your TPI back onto would be a better plan.
It's a 4" bore block. It was a service replacement engine (no vin code stamp).
It's a 350. No telling on the bore size until you pull a head off. It could be stock, .010, .020, .030, .040, .060" over bore.
Unless it's bored .040 or 060" already, it will make a 383 just as well as any other 350 block.
The 305 heads was put on to bump compression up, it's an old trick but most that do it don't understand port flow and understand how those are very poor flowing heads.
It's for sure NOT the original engine for your car. You car is an '87 correct? That would be a 1 pc. rear main seal block and roller cam for an '87 firebird.
There is no "setting" the harmonic damper. It just slides onto the crank and keyway.
The timing chain does have to be installed correct though. It's as simple as lining up the dots. Dot over dot. Cam gear dot at 6:00, crank gear dot at 12:00.
Setting timing is simple as well. Get #1 cyl. to TDC on compression stroke, mark on cap where #1 cyl spark plug wire goes, turn rotor button to point toward #1 plug wire post on cap and drop the dist. in place.
It's a 4" bore block. It was a service replacement engine (no vin code stamp).
It's a 350. No telling on the bore size until you pull a head off. It could be stock, .010, .020, .030, .040, .060" over bore.
Unless it's bored .040 or 060" already, it will make a 383 just as well as any other 350 block.
The 305 heads was put on to bump compression up, it's an old trick but most that do it don't understand port flow and understand how those are very poor flowing heads.
It's for sure NOT the original engine for your car. You car is an '87 correct? That would be a 1 pc. rear main seal block and roller cam for an '87 firebird.
There is no "setting" the harmonic damper. It just slides onto the crank and keyway.
The timing chain does have to be installed correct though. It's as simple as lining up the dots. Dot over dot. Cam gear dot at 6:00, crank gear dot at 12:00.
Setting timing is simple as well. Get #1 cyl. to TDC on compression stroke, mark on cap where #1 cyl spark plug wire goes, turn rotor button to point toward #1 plug wire post on cap and drop the dist. in place.
Hey Night, not to hi-jack this thread, but I was looking at my casting #s and searching to see if it was a good casting. I have the same numbers as above. (bell casting #s) However, mine are the exact opposite direction. Mean anything? Mine head from crown of bell down towards side, not from side up as above to be crystal clear. Thanks in advance.
3970010 is probably THE SINGLE MOST COMMON 4" bore SBC casting there ever was. There are (were) just VAST numbers of them in existence. Lots have fallen by the wayside in the intervening years, as people have weeded out most of the ones with The Starter Bolt Hole Problem, The Lifter Bore Problem, The Bell Housing Dowel Pin Location Problem, and a handful of other Problems that devolve purely from the monkey-plop grade of quality control they had back then. Plus of course the sheer number of them that got bored out .060" the very first time some "rebuilder" got hold of them, and stuff like that.
Whether the starter is the right distance from the crank, the lifter bores point at the cam, the BH is centered on the crank, the cyls are perpendicular to the crank, the oil passages drilled from the front and the rear meet in the middle, etc. etc. etc. etc. is ALOT more important than which way the casting number faces. Not to mention, the history and condition of it; how far has it already been bored, has it ever frozen, have the heads ever been overtorqued and distorted the decks, etc. etc. etc. etc. But in the end, it's STILL just a 70s block with crappy 70s QC, 2-pc rear main seal, and no roller provisions. IMO an OK foundation for a very basic rebuild, not a good place to start for anything "performance" oriented, in this day and time. It's not the 80s anymore.
Good to know. Its has a significant amount of work done already. zero decked, line hone and .030 over yada yada. Its currently my 383 in my 3rd gen.... but... its coming out. New cam, 1.6 comp pro rol, scored a ati super damp demo for 290 today on ebay and new springs for my dart pro 1's for the new lift. Debating on how far I want to take it.... should have around 500@ fw. But the dyno will tell me for sure. I ground the crank in school.... and know im pushing it. dont plan on spinning past 5500 6000 MAX. This winter I think I'm pulling trigger on internal bal crank, rods and pistons and wondering if a new block should be on that list too. Darn shp's are spendy... Thanks for the reply!
Hard to say... I don't think there's too much about any series of 010 castings that's any "better" or "worse" than any other; it all depends on ... all that other stuff. "Good casting" drowns in the noise of bad machine work at birth and long-term abuse over its entire life the last 40 - 50 yrs.
I deal in woodwind musical instruments sometimes. People get on the message boards and want to know about "is my instrument from 'the golden years' of {fill in the blank mfr & model}" which usually means, sometime in the 50s or 60s, where there are basically no longer any living witnesses to the time in question... but what REALLY matters is, are the tone holes in the right relationship to each other, so that it plays in tune with itself; does it have mold; has it sat in an attic for 30 yrs and the wood got all dried out and warped and misshapen and cracked; did somebody use it in marching band and all the pivot screws and rods are rusted up solid; has it been dropped; are all the pieces still even there and original; and so forth. Even if it IS from "the golden years", the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune that come the way of all things, may not have spared it. An instrument (or engine block) from "the lead years" might well totally outplay one from "the golden years" if the one is beat to hell and the other got lucky at birth and has led a cushy life since. Can't tell that from stuff like casting number orientation. Gotta examine it as an individual.
I wouldn't put that kind of money into a 010 block in 2016. That's just me, crusty old fart that I am; but those things were such CRAP back in the day, most of em, that you used to could go through a whole WAREHOUSE full of em just to find one that didn't have any of those serious factory flaws I mentioned above and also still had enough life left in it to warrant the effort. Newer stock blocks, let alone aftermarket, are superior in pretty much every way. But aftermarket blocks have their own QC problems too: don't hallucinate that you're just gonna order a SHP and it's gonna be perfect and you can just slap some other aftermarket parts off in it as-is, because you're likely to find that neither it nor the other stuff (crank, rods, whatever) are as road-ready as you'd like.
Last edited by sofakingdom; 06-26-2016 at 12:34 AM.
sofa, you covered about all of it really. I will add, if you have it already and it's good, use it. But if you are starting fresh buying new bottom end parts, it may be wise to look at a newer better block.
Like sofa said, the 010 block was the most cast, most used block GM ever made. It was in production from 1969-1980
sofa, you covered about all of it really. I will add, if you have it already and it's good, use it. But if you are starting fresh buying new bottom end parts, it may be wise to look at a newer better block.
Like sofa said, the 010 block was the most cast, most used block GM ever made. It was in production from 1969-1980
Thanks fellas. Appreciate the comments. I know the block was and is in great condition. It had 60k miles on it when I got it and when I did the machining years ago. Car has been in storage for years sense. All the parts I've bought for the build, (top end) I will obviously transfer to new short block. Only thing, which Ive been trying to find out about, is the damper. It looks like the external weight can come off, but does that make it internal then?
No; no external balance anywhere in your setup; ALL small block Chevy V8s are internal balance, except for the 400.
Your damper doesn't have an "external weight". If it has come apart, or looks like it can or is about to, just get a new one. You'll need a neutral balance one.
I got a stroker w a 70's 400 external bal crank and flex plate. The damper is a ati super bal external. However when I decide to get my short block, if I go internal, it would be nice to be able to remove weight on this new damper to use in new set up.
03-30-2016, 11:12 AM
Not to mention, the history and condition of it; how far has it already been bored, has it ever frozen, have the heads ever been overtorqued and distorted the decks, etc. etc. etc. etc. But in the end, it's STILL just a 70s block with crappy 70s QC, 2-pc rear main seal, and no roller provisions. IMO an OK foundation for a very basic rebuild, not a good place to start for anything "performance" oriented, in this day and time. It's not the 80s anymore. 
sofa, you covered about all of it really. I will add, if you have it already and it's good, use it. But if you are starting fresh buying new bottom end parts, it may be wise to look at a newer better block. 