I am looking to replace my lame '89 Grand Prix with a 3rd Gen Firebird, but I want to have some kind of plan before I get started so need some info before I get started.

First, what is the curb weight on one of these things? I can't find it anywhere! I think the new ones are about 3,300lbs.

Second, since I'm looking at a ten year or older car that has probably been driven hard, I would like to drop in a new engine for starters, and over time replace the whole drive train and suspension. I was wondering what the reccomended engine would be? I want a 5 or 6 speed manual transmition. I've been thinking about the new 5.7 aluminum V8 they put in the 4th gen Firebirds... Power is important, but so is fuel economy. I don't want a six or a four, but according to Pontiac they are getting nearly 30 mpg on the highway out of that aluminum 5.7 8. The other consideration is balance, would a 350 (iron or aluminum) adversly effect balance and handling in a car that often has a 305?

While we're at it, what does a crate engine cost anyway?

Also, what are the best ways of losing weight without compromising structural integrity or street legal status?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help out!

 

That weight sounds about right, give or take a few lbs here and there.



Whoa hold your wad there pal If your patient and do the proper research and inspection of a potential ride, then you might not really be in the market for a new engine. I mean I bought my GTA with 160,000 on it and I still run mid to low 14 on it with 196,000 miles. If you buy from the right person you could very well have a very healthy f-body and not have to spend money on a new engine, and you could use that money to upgrade what you have.



Well you could go with a lot of engines, there are a ton of aftermarket and crate motors you can buy, it all depends on how much money you have and how fast you want to go. Here are a few links.

http://www.paracing.net/index.htm
http://www.amerspeed.com/
http://www.beckracingengines.com/BeckRacingEngines.html
http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/...nes_intro.html
http://www.sdpc2000.com/default.htm
http://www.gmgoodwrench.com/dhtml/pa...erfparts.shtml

and I'm sure there are more that others know about as well.



A 5 or 6 speed tranny is possible, but you will not find any thirdgen 5.7L motors with them stock. They did not come with them because GM thought they could not handle the torque of the 350sbc. As for dropping in a LS1 (that is the aluminum block motor your talking about), well I hope you have about $10,000 sitting around, because that will be about what your going to drop into it, give or take. As for fuel economy, well I'll use my car as an example, I have a 5.7 and I get about 22 to 24 highway and about 16 to 18 city, and thats not too shabby. All in all I think that with whatever motor you run you should see those kinds of numbers with a properly tuned SBC. I dont think you'll have to worry about balance much unless you plane on dropp a big block in.

Remove rear seats and passenger seat, fiberglass hood, remove window washer fluid container, AC delete, Smog pump delete, lighter wheels, less rubber/lower profile etc etc etc........

hope this helps out a little bit!

 

Lots of questions. Curb weight of a hardtop is approx. 3500lbs. Look for a car with the iroc package if you want good stock suspension, a 305 5speed would be good if you intend on replacing the engine.

I would not attempt to put an LS1 in a 3rd gen, it would take some fabrication to say the least. If you want the kind of power a LS1 has it will cost about $3000 in a crate motor, but that would likely come with a carb setup and perform differently with fuel injection, you need to decide on what you want.

You could also remove your spare tire and change to aluminum heads/block/water pump to save weight.

How much money are you willing to spend? It is important in deciding what you can afford, fuel injection can be very expensive. If I was you I would buy a zz4 crate engine, replace the cam and then look into different intakes and fuel systems based on $$.

 

A 99' LS1 crate motor is going to go for about 5 grand w/o the computer and about 6 grand w/, and that is just the long block, then you have to decide on intake and other goodies...I honestly think you will end up spending way too much money.....but hey, to each his own!

 

Thanks for the replies.

I kind of already knew the answer re: losing weight. I guess I was hoping there was some sort of miracle aftermarket racing seats that would leave room for the wife and kids while still losing an appreciable ammount of balast or something. I have a target curb weight of 3,000lbs, though that may be hard if I'm starting at 3,500 and want to retain some niceties since this will be my daily driver. I was/am hoping that an aluminum block and manual transmition will get me close to this, with the difference being made up by multiple miscelaneous reductions on the components mentioned in the other posts.

My basic concept is to make a cool car that is quick, but also with a degree of practicality. It needs to be reliable and get good gas mileage. From what I've seen, fuel injection beats out carburation in terms of consistency, reliability, performance and minimal fuss. A lighter car is obviously going to move faster while burning less gas than a heavier car with the same engine, so I figured that a curb weight of 3,000lbs w/ 300hp and 300flbs would strike a nice balance.

If near 3,000lbs is reasonably achievable without completely gutting the car, it would seem that a 305TPI would fit the bill, based on the theorem of 1hp/1ftlbs per 1ci. What is the weight difference between an LS1 and the 305TPI? Is there an aluminum block 305 w/ good reputation?

BTW, I plan on investing between 10 and 15 thousand dollars over two years for this car. I will have about 3 or 4 thousand up front when I make the purchase.

 

MJR do not use a 305 =) You can get to your goal and far past it much easier with a 350. It would be very difficult(impossible?) to find an aluminum 305. With an aluminum block you can save almost 100 pounds, and maybe 20-40 with aluminum heads. I really don't know how much the seats weigh :p Im assuming you're talking about 300 horsepower at the crank, since that would make more sense to use the 1hp/ci ratio for. That really isn't all that much power, and aside from the expensive block and heads would not be too expensive to attain. The block is going to cost a lot.

Next is the intake. You basically have three options. The stock tpi can probably produce that power, or you could put on a super ram or a miniram. There is always the LT1 intake if you want to inquire with John about it. Another concern is emissions, what regulations must you follow? The miniram has no egr provisions, but the super ram does. I know the LT1 does, but not sure how it would work. The intake you choose should depend on what kind of power range you want to work with, or what cam you choose.

Then you need to pick out some headers and look into a custom prom. You could save a little more weight by getting rid of some emissions equipment and the a/c or heat if you don't need them.

I said to make that kind of power, I did not say to put a LS1 crate engine in. Why the hell would you buy an LS1 and not use the intake it comes with? I don't think it is possible to put a different intake on an LS1, unless you have some custom work done.

As I think of all the stuff you would have to fuss with, buying an LS1 for 6 grand and spending however much money is necessary to fit it in the engine bay would probably be worth the trouble. The LS1 makes 300rwhp on some of those cars, which is more like 375 at the crank.

 

We used to have emmisions regs where I live, but for whatever reason they kind of went the way of the dodo. I remember the nightmares involved in trying to get my 1982 Ford T-Bird w/ their 5.0 to pass. As it turned out, the car expired before the extension tag did! Still, despite problems brought on by the variable venturi carb, it was a lot of fun before it died. Most of the car wasn't there anymore, so it was a POS but light and fast. As I recall, the first car I ran into after actualy managing to start the beast and make it to a red light was a third gen Camaro, still wearing primer. That was expected. What took me by suprise was when I ran into a Taurus SHO. I didn't even know the SHO existed at the time, just that there was a cocky guy in a lame car that took off like a rocket! It left me scratching my head for a long time...

Wait, I'm getting side tracked!

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more a 350 makes sense. The aftermarket parts seem to be more plentiful and cheaper, and you can obviously get a lot more power out of it.

So, now that I know I want a 350, the next question is what is the functional difference between long block and short block? I have heard reference to both, and since I've always owned Fords until my Grand Prix and my anticipated Firebird, I really don't know much about GM powerplants.

I have seen the zz4 come up several times on these forums, the implication being that it is a nice engine. I should probably dig around a bit for some info.

Assuming that I found an 87 or newer Firebird w/ the 350TPI, would that be a fairly easy swap to the zz4 or LT1?

I know nothing of intakes so I need to do some homework.

 

Well the ZZ4 is a pretty easy swap if you know what your doing. the TPI bolts right up to it. If *I* were you and I had that much money to spend i wouldn't go with the lighter route, rather i'd buy a supercharger and supercharge the TPI system as is. You will need injectors, custom prom, fuel pressure regulator, but you will be flying 12 second 1/4 mile times with a daily driver.

I would get the LT1 idea out of your head as well unless you can do it yourself. Its alot of work nomatter what these guys say!

Stick with TPI, and supercharge it. Work from there

Matt

Edit: Long block means that the engine you are buying has heads on it as well as a cam. I'm not sure if intake is included or not. Doesn't matter cause you will be replaceing it.

Short Block: complete bottom end of engine below heads w/ no cam or lifters.